Republicans propose mass student surveillance plan to prevent shootings

[thestaggy]

The stats don't support the claims used to justify its use.

In one case it did. Hooliganism in English football. English football fans became some of the first people to be extensively watched in the mid-80s and it coincided with a decrease in hooliganism. Of course there was increased policing, but people had nowhere to hide, trouble makers were identified and eventually they could be picked out of a crowd before they even got in to a stadium. Many were issued with life-time bans from even being near a stadium on match days thanks to surveillance.

Pros and cons. Just depends on who is using it and for what purpose.

 

[My_King]

So instead of finding out who the troubled kids are just get rid of the guns they might hurt themselves and others with?

This doesnt seem to sink in.

Take away the guns, let the bullies keep on bulling. Problem solved

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

The stats don't support the claims used to justify its use.

Some extracts from a single source:

The results of systematic reviews and meta‐analyses conducted by Welsh and Farrington (2002, 2008, 2009a) have synthesized the empirical knowledge on CCTV. The initial review (Welsh & Farrington, 2002) included 22 evaluations and found that CCTV had a small but significant effect on vehicle crimes and no effect on violent crimes. The updated review (Welsh & Farrington, 2008, 2009a) included 44 evaluations and examined the effect of CCTV across four main settings: city and town centers, public housing, public transport, and car parks. It was found that CCTV was associated with a 16% reduction in crime, which was a significant effect. This effect was driven by a 51% reduction in crime in the car park schemes, with CCTV in the other settings having small and nonsignificant effects on crime.

More recently, Alexandrie (2017) reviewed seven randomized and natural experiments of CCTV, finding crime reductions between 24% and 28% in public streets and urban subway stations, but no effect in parking facilities or suburban subway stations.

From another source: (behind pay wall)

This article reports on the findings of a systematic review—incorporating meta-analytic techniques—of the highest-quality available research evidence on the effects of CCTV on crime in public space. CCTV had a significant desirable effect on crime, with an overall reduction in crime of 21 per cent in experimental compared to comparable control areas. CCTV was most effective in reducing crime in car parks, most effective when combined with improved street lighting and targeted at vehicle crimes, and more effective in reducing crime in the UK than in North America.

 

[Moi]

I have an idea. Let the leftys propose something, you know, like antifa sorting out crime.

 

[Polymathic]

GOP is all in all small government when it comes to social programs but when it comes.to everything else they are big government all the way

 

[Moi]

GOP is all in all small government when it comes to social programs but when it comes.to everything else they are big government all the way

Kek. Can you imagine Hillary (the bit#h liar) being in control ?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I agree, arm teachers and put more armed security around.

Will just get more of this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1187022153599897601

 

[Jabulani22]

LOL propose mass surveillance , which American president did that again ..........
But anyway this is doomed to failure because some lefty will say thats an infringement of rights yada yada lets rather infrine the 2nd ammendmant instead.

 

[Jabulani22]

Will just get more of this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1187022153599897601

Thats called resisting arrest or detainment , see all those manuevers she makes to stop him from getting her under control ? law covers all ages and people should learn this , an 11 year old with a blade can be as deadly as a 25 year old with a blade.

 

[ForceFate]

I have an idea. Let the leftys propose something, you know, like antifa sorting out crime.

?

 

[Eniigma]

Will just get more of this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1187022153599897601

Better than someone shooting up a school wouldn't you say?
I'm sure every 11th grader would pick being handled roughly (not that, that is right or ok at all) by security than being shot by some deranged idiot, every single time.

p.s sorry for the delayed response, was not at work on friday.

 

[MidnightWizard]

Better than someone shooting up a school wouldn't you say?
I'm sure every 11th grader would pick being handled roughly (not that, that is right or ok at all) by security than being shot by some deranged idiot, every single time.

Interesting that ALL schools ( and many other places ) are NO gun Zones !
Strange then that THOSE are the places where these -- SHOOTINGS -- take place

WHY do you think that might be ?

 

[konfab]

I have an idea. Let the leftys propose something, you know, like antifa sorting out crime.

Leftists:
The police are racist and systematically murder black people.
Also leftists:
All the guns in the country should be controlled by the police, and people should have no means of defending themselves because the government will do it for them.

Leftists:
The AR15 is a weapon of war, how can you possibly think it is a good idea that civilians should have access to such a weapon.
Also leftists:
There is no point in having an AR15 as the government will simply beat you in any form of armed combat .

Leftists:
Mass surveillance is bad. People should be free from being spied on by the government.
Also leftists:
We want the government to monitor all communications for hate speech and throw any such transgressors in prison.

 

[Emjay]

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Better than someone shooting up a school wouldn't you say?
I'm sure every 11th grader would pick being handled roughly (not that, that is right or ok at all) by security than being shot by some deranged idiot, every single time.

p.s sorry for the delayed response, was not at work on friday.

Bit of a tenuous and unsupported (as far as I know) causality there. And you'd have to reckon in the cost, monetarily and psychologically.

Schools there are already doing very harmful 'live shooter' drills that traumatises children and don't seem to help much.

 

[Eniigma]

Bit of a tenuous and unsupported (as far as I know) causality there. And you'd have to reckon in the cost, monetarily and psychologically.

Schools there are already doing very harmful 'live shooter' drills that traumatises children and don't seem to help much.

You're the one that brought the guard / cop assaulting the kid into it. I see zero value in doing drills, really that’s like us doing home invasion drills here, but refusing to secure our homes and doing anything practical to reduce the risk.

Putting measures into place to actively stop these attacks is infinitely better than drills or passive actions that have no effect. These places are all already "gun free" zones so by that measure alone these things should not happen, but making a law has zero effect on those willing to break said laws. Just like laws to stop someone owning a gun, is not going to stop someone who doesn't give a toss about the laws. By all accounts there are already something like over 300 million legal guns in the US, never mind illegal ones, that horse has bolted, the gov will never get all of them even if they completely revoked the 2A tomorrow and declared any and all firearms illegal.

Armed guards are an effective deterrent even if not 100% successful. If they were not, then there would be no point in securing banks, jewellery stores, politian’s and celebrities with them. I find I rather ironic how people want to pass so many laws (in all sorts of areas) to “protect the children” but when it comes to this, they don’t even warrant the same level as someone who does make believe in front of a camera. Go figure.

I reckon the cost, in lives, psychologically and even monetarily is far worse after a shooting. Honestly if I was a parent of a kid involved in a shooting, I'd go after the school and state for not making the school as safe as possible long before ever considering going after a gun manufacturer. The reality is for whatever cause, these things are happening regularly, it’s the schools duty to make it difficult as possible for them to, yet not become a prison and traumatise the kids in the process. I’m under no delusion that it’s an easy task for them.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

You're the one that brought the guard / cop assaulting the kid into it. I see zero value in doing drills, really that’s like us doing home invasion drills here, but refusing to secure our homes and doing anything practical to reduce the risk.

Putting measures into place to actively stop these attacks is infinitely better than drills or passive actions that have no effect. These places are all already "gun free" zones so by that measure alone these things should not happen, but making a law has zero effect on those willing to break said laws. Just like laws to stop someone owning a gun, is not going to stop someone who doesn't give a toss about the laws. By all accounts there are already something like over 300 million legal guns in the US, never mind illegal ones, that horse has bolted, the gov will never get all of them even if they completely revoked the 2A tomorrow and declared any and all firearms illegal.

Armed guards are an effective deterrent even if not 100% successful. If they were not, then there would be no point in securing banks, jewellery stores, politian’s and celebrities with them. I find I rather ironic how people want to pass so many laws (in all sorts of areas) to “protect the children” but when it comes to this, they don’t even warrant the same level as someone who does make believe in front of a camera. Go figure.

I reckon the cost, in lives, psychologically and even monetarily is far worse after a shooting. Honestly if I was a parent of a kid involved in a shooting, I'd go after the school and state for not making the school as safe as possible long before ever considering going after a gun manufacturer. The reality is for whatever cause, these things are happening regularly, it’s the schools duty to make it difficult as possible for them to, yet not become a prison and traumatise the kids in the process. I’m under no delusion that it’s an easy task for them.

I brought it up because I wanted to illustrate some of the cost that would go with having more armed people in schools. And specifically because as far as I'm aware there isn't really good evidence that it will help, but there are a lot of inherent risks involved. And schools are a very different environment to banks or jewelry stores or bodyguards protecting individuals that makes it much harder, agree with you on that.

There are a multitude of things they could do that don't involve trying to get rid of 300m guns. And some of it is gaining traction but their political culture is so broken on this issue.

 

[Eniigma]

I brought it up because I wanted to illustrate some of the cost that would go with having more armed people in schools. And specifically because as far as I'm aware there isn't really good evidence that it will help, but there are a lot of inherent risks involved. And schools are a very different environment to banks or jewelry stores or bodyguards protecting individuals that makes it much harder, agree with you on that.

There are a multitude of things they could do that don't involve trying to get rid of 300m guns. And some of it is gaining traction but their political culture is so broken on this issue.

I agree there are other things to do instead of blaming it all on the tool.

And they really should start to focus on the cause of these. The problem no one really knows what it is and as soon as people start talking about things like discipline, morals, family values, medications etc as potential factors in the cause, they are ridiculed and it's much easier to blame the tool and things like video games.

 

[Nanfeishen]

And they really should start to focus on the cause of these. The problem no one really knows what it is and as soon as people start talking about things like discipline, morals, family values, medications etc as potential factors in the cause, they are ridiculed and it's much easier to blame the tool and things like video games.

The problem isnt that no one knows, its just that no one wants to address it as it is so ingrained.

This blogger appears to have hit the nail on the head with the following article:

Aggression and sexual repression in America

Aggression and sexual repression in America

© The culture of violence: It’s raining outside. Five kilometers away on the other side of the river, it’s raining in America, too. ...

geraldmceachern.blogspot.com

 

[Eniigma]

The problem isnt that no one knows, its just that no one wants to address it as it is so ingrained.

This blogger appears to have hit the nail on the head with the following article:

Aggression and sexual repression in America

Aggression and sexual repression in America

© The culture of violence: It’s raining outside. Five kilometers away on the other side of the river, it’s raining in America, too. ...

geraldmceachern.blogspot.com

You Looney

Edit: actually i'm going to change that to a serious you looney now that i've read most of the article.