Richard’s Bay: Parents left horrified by students’ “demonic” artworks / AKA The demonic art thread

[Jabulani22]

I presume you question the numbers.

If you find it was only a genocide of 1 million human beings and not 6 million does it make it less of an atrocity ?

I question the reason for not being able to investigate , like other genocides it should be afforded the same treatment .
No 1 mil or 100 mil is a huge atrocity , but we strive for excellence and accuracy in most other things , why not that .
Dont let an attempt by STS to attack my character derail a thread , its an old trick but one that has been perfected.

 

[rambo919]

BS. Absolute nonsense. Show me where attacks are against God or Jesus, rather than against Christianity or religion in general. Asserting that God doesn't exist isn't an attack against God, just btw.

You sound like you have never been to the mostly toxic "philosophy" subforum.

 

[daveza]

You sound like you have never been to the mostly toxic "philosophy" subforum.

 

[STS]

I said the entire holocaust should be investigated without fear , for historic accuracy , lol you just cant help trying to paint it as some smear against me .
I never said stop or go easy , i said ALL should be treated equally .
I get it , you cant argue using facts so you go for easy ways to call your opponents into disrepute , better luck next time .

I am not trying to smear you, I am saying you have double standards. You yourself only attack one argument in threads, do you not?

I am not trying to break your reputation either, I am trying to figure out your justification for "leave christianity alone, go after the other religions"?

 

[Jabulani22]

I am not trying to smear you, I am saying you have double standards. You yourself only attack one argument in threads, do you not?

I am not trying to break your reputation either, I am trying to figure out your justification for "leave christianity alone, go after the other religions"?

Then retract your earlier attempt at smear , there are usually only three sides to the argument , for and against , the third being neutral , so yes i do point out flaws in the opposition argument , its what debate is about and yes if im neutral i tend to leave it alone as i havent read enough about it or whatever.
Did i say leave Christianity alone or did i simply say treat all the same ?
What would have been said had a piece of this "art" been made out of quaran pages that were torn out ?

 

[daveza]

For what it's worth no single 'attack on christians ' in this thread has even come close to the vitriol dished out by christians on social media where this has issue been commented on.

 

[STS]

Then retract your earlier attempt at smear , there are usually only three sides to the argument , for and against , the third being neutral , so yes i do point out flaws in the opposition argument , its what debate is about and yes if im neutral i tend to leave it alone as i havent read enough about it or whatever.
Did i say leave Christianity alone or did i simply say treat all the same ?
What would have been said had a piece of this "art" been made out of quaran pages that were torn out ?

I retract any implication or suggestion that you are anti-semetic.

You yourself are suggesting we do not criticise all religion equally based on your opinion of how others act. People are free to follow any belief they wish and if it makes them a better person, that is great - they are allowed to be criticised for those beliefs or when those beliefs cause harm, as they are doing in this story.

Had an atheist attacked a christian school that was keeping to itself, we also would have criticised them for making drama where people wanted to be left alone. The whole point to this thread is that someone wants to censor somebody for something they are doing, which isn't even an attack on their livelihood

 

[Jabulani22]

I retract any implication or suggestion that you are anti-semetic.

You yourself are suggesting we do not criticise all religion equally based on your opinion of how others act. People are free to follow any belief they wish and if it makes them a better person, that is great - they are allowed to be criticised for those beliefs or when those beliefs cause harm, as they are doing in this story.

Had an atheist attacked a christian school that was keeping to itself, we also would have criticised them for making drama where people wanted to be left alone. The whole point to this thread is that someone wants to censor somebody for something they are doing, which isn't even an attack on their livelihood

I accept your fair points , upto the last part of my previous comment , what would the reaction have been if he used the quaran to make the sculpture ? surely expulsion would not be unheard of ?Surely a huge social media campaign would have been launched to shut down his "art" and further life prospects, So what we have is a protection and persecution system being setup .This infringes on certain religions as the same protections by law and public opinion are not the same as the protected one.
Its quite simple to test really , infact it was tested by that newspaper and the Danes . You are simply not allowed free speech or art against some.

 

[Grant]

now on to why do people tell Christians to calm down and turn cheeks ,

Is turning the cheek not part of the doctrine?

 

[Jabulani22]

Is turning the cheek not part of the doctrine?

It may be part of the belief system , it is not cause for attack without repurcussions , while an individual may turn the other cheek , the law should not .
ie: Christians may turn their cheek but if its hate speech or seen to be a persecution then the law should punish the offender/s.
Once again im not for any of this religion bashing but it has to be understood that some religions are given a wide berth and others picked on , this is not right by any sense.
Edit- It can also be seen to be saying do not act out of revenge or violence and not saying do not act at all.

 

[STS]

I accept your fair points , upto the last part of my previous comment , what would the reaction have been if he used the quaran to make the sculpture ? surely expulsion would not be unheard of ?Surely a huge social media campaign would have been launched to shut down his "art" and further life prospects, So what we have is a protection and persecution system being setup .This infringes on certain religions as the same protections by law and public opinion are not the same as the protected one.
Its quite simple to test really , infact it was tested by that newspaper and the Danes . You are simply not allowed free speech or art against some.

In the same way a huge social media campaign is being launched to boycott the school? If they used the koran/quran in an art project, that is up to them and their freedom of speech, the book was their property. Just because one group makes a bigger uproar about an issue doesn't give the cause any more justification. Paper is paper, art is art.

 

[daveza]

it has to be understood that some religions are given a wide berth and others picked on

That is simply not true.

Besides the christian and muslim attacks, just wait till the next Gaza thread.

And if the likes of Anderson can lynch a schoolkid then he and his followers should be willing to take as much as what they give.

I don't know why but every religion seems to believe they are special and should therefore be allowed to do certain things and be excused others.

That's just not how things work.

 

[Jabulani22]

In the same way a huge social media campaign is being launched to boycott the school? If they used the koran/quran in an art project, that is up to them and their freedom of speech, the book was their property. Just because one group makes a bigger uproar about an issue doesn't give the cause any more justification. Paper is paper, art is art.

But we both know some people would not be telling muslims to turn cheeks , some would be calling for the principal to resign and more .
The reactions are different because the expectations and consequences are different and that is where the problem lies , all should be equal .

 

[Jabulani22]

That is simply not true.

Besides the christian and muslim attacks, just wait till the next Gaza thread.

And if the likes of Anderson can lynch a schoolkid then he and his followers should be willing to take as much as what they give.

I don't know why but every religion seems to believe they are special and should therefore be allowed to do certain things and be excused others.

That's just not how things work.

Im talking about social media and real world repurcussions not some forum that most twitter users in SA dont use .
And yes some are afforded more room , when is the last time you heard of a jewish /scientology / burning buddhist remark from a pupil ?
Wouldnt be a thing unless you can tell Christians to turn their cheek .
There are names for people who mock the jewish religion and islam , antisemite and islamaphobe , whats the name for a person mocking a Christian ? nothing because it carries very little social consequences , its the new normal.

 

[STS]

But we both know some people would not be telling muslims to turn cheeks , some would be calling for the principal to resign and more .
The reactions are different because the expectations and consequences are different and that is where the problem lies , all should be equal .

Just as we both know that there are also christians overreacting, saying horrible things and making an issue out of a non-issue.

They are not all equal, this discussion is just an example of that, would you put as much effort into defending satanism as you would christianity?

 

[daveza]

There are names for people who mock the jewish religion and islam , antisemite and islamaphobe , whats the name for a person mocking a Christian ? nothing because it carries very little social consequences , its the new normal.

There's no word for christians bashing non-christians either, seems there are no social consequences there either.

And if you are both non-christian and gay .... well,you know how that goes.

Oh, and it's not mocking, it's criticising and questioning.

 

[Jabulani22]

Just as we both know that there are also christians overreacting, saying horrible things and making an issue out of a non-issue.

They are not all equal, this discussion is just an example of that, would you put as much effort into defending satanism as you would christianity?

I would , if its a religion it should be afforded the same respect as any .
While all are not equal , lets strive for equality.

 

[Techne]

The hatred, bigotry and pure vitriol from atheists towards religious people on social media makes you wonder why atheism is so popular

 

[STS]

Im talking about social media and real world repurcussions not some forum that most twitter users in SA dont use .
And yes some are afforded more room , when is the last time you heard of a jewish /scientology / burning buddhist remark from a pupil ?
Wouldnt be a thing unless you can tell Christians to turn their cheek .
There are names for people who mock the jewish religion and islam , antisemite and islamaphobe , whats the name for a person mocking a Christian ? nothing because it carries very little social consequences , its the new normal.

There are certain words for non-believers of the christian faith as well, and a special doctrine for dealing with them and how to act around them.

Then there is also christian art over the years:
https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=1041

Chick.com: Big Daddy?

A student proves evolution is full of holes.

www.chick.com

 

[daveza]

The hatred, bigotry and pure vitriol from atheists towards religious people on social media makes you wonder why atheism is so popular

The difference is atheists don't impose their beliefs / lack of beliefs on the religious,

If the religious could reciprocate this thread would not exist.