Richard Dawkins demonstrates the evolution of the eye

[copacetic]

Reporting isn't something that would occur to me easily.

The rule is that if you want to dish out stupid comments, don't be surprised when you get a retort.

Agree.

 

[porchrat]

Reporting isn't something that would occur to me easily.

The rule is that if you want to dish out stupid comments, don't be surprised when you get a retort.

Good luck avoiding a ban then.

 

[CommonSense]

And what you gleaned is that I view myself as a "paragon of virtue, kindness, and holy light".

I'd still like to know from which posts you got that feeling.

Abandonallhope.

Am I right that you are a 'true christian'?
If your answer to that is YES. Then the way you interact here does not reflect very well on your respect for your holy book. After all you should then actually be the paragon of virtue, kindness, and holy light. Otherwise you are a false person.
Didn't your Jesus teach tolerance and turning the other cheek and all that?

So what are you?

 

[abandonallhope]

Abandonallhope.

Am I right that you are a 'true christian'?

What do you mean by 'true christian' ?

 

[be.plato]

What do you mean by 'true christian' ?

Generally "non-Christians" start with that argument when they want to "control" behavior and conduct of Christians.

But generally they have no clue as to what a christian is.

 

[CommonSense]

What do you mean by 'true christian' ?

Typical. Deflecting from the question. You know full what what I mean.

Do you profess to be a true christian which claims that you have the correct faith interpretation of the bible and the others are wrong.

But that is not the point and you know that perfectly well.

The point is if you profess to live like a christian, then you should live or at least try to live by the principles as provided by your spritual leader which is JC. And he (according to your text) taught love, tolerance and all that is good. You should live a righteous life through which your deed prove you to be a "paragon of virtue, kindness, and holy light".

If you profess to follow his teachings, but you do not live by those ideals, then surely you are deluding yourself. You can only be deluding yourself because you sure are not deluding anyone else.

@ be.plato. The same goes for you. I asked you a perfectly easy question which I see you still failed to respond to.

It seems that non-religous people treat others better and have more respect for others than you two are showing here.
I do not prescribe to your rules and regulations, but you do, so you should do as you preach.

I am open to being wrong. I even said as much in this thread previously where I made a mistake.

And saying that 'generally they have no clue as to what a christianis' is total bull. And you know that. I would bet that most non-religous people were christians before they learned the real honest truth.

 

[porchrat]

Typical. Deflecting from the question. You know full what what I know.

I laughed long and hard after reading this line

I have seen some epic typos in my time but that is impressive.

 

[CommonSense]

I laughed long and hard after reading this line

I have seen some epic typos in my time but that is impressive.

Can I blame the x-tians for that one? :twisted:

Edit 2: But I'm sure they do in fact know what I know, and that is they side-step the points raised.

 

[porchrat]

Can I blame the x-tians for that one? :twisted:

Edit 2: But I'm sure they do in fact know what I know, and that is they side-step the points raised.

LOL what made it so epic was that I can still understand what you are saying there. You didn't go totally crazy with the typos and end up spewing indecipherable gobbledygook like some forumites do.

That and it was made extra hilarious because your posts are usually, in my experience anyway, pretty close to impeccable

Correct me if I am wrong but the whole "TrueChristian" is particularly popular with, and probably started with, the Landover Baptists yes?

 

[CommonSense]

LOL what made it so epic was that I can still understand what you are saying there. You didn't go totally crazy with the typos and end up spewing indecipherable gobbledygook like some forumites do.

That and it was made extra hilarious because your posts are usually, in my experience anyway, pretty close to impeccable

Correct me if I am wrong but the whole "TrueChristian" is particularly popular with, and probably started with, the Landover Baptists yes?

I would be lying if I would be able to tell you where I saw it first. But I have seen it used numerous times on various forums. (I would love to use the (TM) symbol with it actually.

Landover Baptists is epic in its stories. Sadly, it is sometimes too close to the truth about what is preached in mainstream religion.

On a side-note. I don't know if you read Afrikaans, but I am continuing in my quest to unravel the 'official' doctrines of the Afrikaans churches regarding their view of evolution vs religion.
This article is so far the best I've found which tackles the subject from their POV.
"Indien die evolusieteorie as ‘n feit aanvaar word, beteken dit dat daar geen ander keuse as ateïsme is nie?"
- by Professor Alex Antonites
http://www.spiritualiteit.co.za/artikel-evolusieteorie-feit-beteken-ateisme.php

 

[RiaX]

So why do we keep developing new and better cameras ?

Are there any cameras that can indicate whether a photo is beautiful or mediocre ?

The same reason your eye evolved in the first place. We create improved lenses, power efficent techniques ect ect

This is a really stupid question really, if you cant answer it yourself then there is no hope for you

 

[RiaX]

Thanks, you are making my point for me. Glad we can agree that "distinctions between macro and micro evolution are valid scientific concepts no matter how YECs and IDers abuse these concepts".

fair enough but this is the science thread so we will deal with the scientific definitions. There are no ifs and buts here.

My point being, in an attempt to model reality as it is, your brain generates these subjective images of your dad while he is talking to you. It is subjective.

too much matrix for you... there is a spoon I ate supper with it!

If you claim that "The more rational you get the more ludacrous god becomes" then you need some kind of evidence or some kind of argument.

Wrong, you assume they are of equal weight. Science is done by scientists, when a court of law wants an opinion they ask experts its not left for a democratic vote. Its like saying "provide evidence that splashing holy water on this gun shot wont heal it" you wont find that because no one bothers to do it because its plain stupid

This a pretty bold claim. I disagree. An important aspect of Genesis is that humans (and other things) are created. Humans, specifically, are created in the image of God.

Why because a guy who didnt know the world was round or there are cells in your body or about the DNA that programmed your construction in your mother's womb, wrote it in a book?

Thats the problem you think of these text having the same weight as a science journal. Sad really sad, its like saying harry potter deserves to be kept in the non-fictional section of your local library.

Anyway, I don't know why you and other people think imperfections in humans are a big deal for creationism or theism. Perhaps you have an argument for why you think this is the case?

Its simply pointing out a truely intelligent designed product WRT to an evolved one. When you build something, even a PC you build it to the maxium capacity/abilities that your resources can achieve. If god is so knowning and powerful why has he created such a rubbish device?

It's a subjective assertion to think it is arrogant to believe this. Some people may think it is humbling

Yes totally humbling..... how is that humbling ? Its not humble at all its just making your existance the number one priority (like how all life does) and colouring it with pretty words.

How is it humbling to think that an almighty entity is listening to your prayers or watching you and your family like some sicko.

I don't think classical theists have to concede any ground when it comes to creation. Evolution does not negate creation

It does negate creation in bible terms since you arent molded from sand. If i was made from sand there would be more silica in my body ....

Evolution doesnt negate it in their eyes because they are ignorant and lack the honesty to be unbiased also they employ the grandest of counter agurements "na uh LALALALALALA ... its your opinion and I get my definitions from Moron weekly magazine and I can believe what i want" ect. Sure you can believe what you want doesnt make it correct. No matter how hard I believe I can fly I wont fly like superman.

like that fellow said on his show

"Eat schit 20 trillion flies cant be wrong?"

lol

Nice try at changing the subject lol. It does not change the fact that ad hominems

Nay there are no personal attacks here, just facts. Jesus hasnt come back. I havent seen a ghost, angel, devil, spoken to god or seen anyone raise from the dead. Maybe god died ROFL

It might seem harsh but its blunt truth. Just because lots of people believe in something that doesnt make it right.

 

[RiaX]

[video=youtube;aUFOlyt7ErE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUFOlyt7ErE[/video]

 

[Techne]

Wrong, you assume they are of equal weight. Science is done by scientists, when a court of law wants an opinion they ask experts its not left for a democratic vote. Its like saying "provide evidence that splashing holy water on this gun shot wont heal it" you wont find that because no one bothers to do it because its plain stupid

Without evidence and some kind of argument, these two statements have equal weight:
1) The more rational you get the more ludicrous theism becomes.
2) The more rational you get the more ludicrous atheism becomes.
I.e., it is just an insulting opinion.

Why because a guy who didnt know the world was round or there are cells in your body or about the DNA that programmed your construction in your mother's womb, wrote it in a book?
Thats the problem you think of these text having the same weight as a science journal. Sad really sad, its like saying harry potter deserves to be kept in the non-fictional section of your local library.

It doesn’t really matter who said it. The concept of creation itself can be rationally supported via logic and reason.

Its simply pointing out a truely intelligent designed product WRT to an evolved one. When you build something, even a PC you build it to the maxium capacity/abilities that your resources can achieve. If god is so knowning and powerful why has he created such a rubbish device?

It is your subjective opinion that the eye is a rubbish device. Evolution and creation are not mutually exclusive concepts and I am not an IDer (no need to beat that dead horse ). And even if there is some sort of objective empirical measure that the eye is “rubbish”, this does not pose a problem for theism or creation since one has to argue that there can be absolutely no good reason for it. I.e., you have to understand ALL of God’s reasons and then judge that none of them are good enough.

Yes totally humbling..... how is that humbling ? Its not humble at all its just making your existance the number one priority (like how all life does) and colouring it with pretty words.
How is it humbling to think that an almighty entity is listening to your prayers or watching you and your family like some sicko.

I haven’t met any Christians that think of God in those terms. Not quite sure why you think this? Anyway, from what I understand, we were created in God’s image (meaning we have an intellect analogous to that of God) with certain natural ends. It may be humbling to some, some may think it is an arrogant notion. Subjective feelings really.

It does negate creation in bible terms since you arent molded from sand. If i was made from sand there would be more silica in my body ....

You are thinking like a Biblical literalist lol. One of the important aspects of Genesis is that creation is true. Accepting that the “from dust” part is not literally true does not imply creation is false.

Evolution doesnt negate it in their eyes because they are ignorant and lack the honesty to be unbiased also they employ the grandest of counter agurements "na uh LALALALALALA ... its your opinion and I get my definitions from Moron weekly magazine and I can believe what i want" ect. Sure you can believe what you want doesnt make it correct. No matter how hard I believe I can fly I wont fly like superman.
like that fellow said on his show
"Eat schit 20 trillion flies cant be wrong?"
lol

I am still trying to understand why you think evolution negates creation. Do you have some sort of argument perhaps?

Nay there are no personal attacks here, just facts. Jesus hasnt come back. I havent seen a ghost, angel, devil, spoken to god or seen anyone raise from the dead. Maybe god died ROFL
It might seem harsh but its blunt truth. Just because lots of people believe in something that doesnt make it right.

Sorry, these (quoted below,) are simple ad hominem fallacies. That is the part I am referring to before you brought in your opinions about Jesus to try and change the subject:

The mentality is sepcial and can borderline a psychiatric delusional psychosis. See although never knowning the the people of the time even though they are aware the basic average knowledge was almost nonexistant. If I tell a christian tomorrow my friend woke up from the dead they will never believe it. Even if its possible (cardiac resus - those people that wake up in morgues. Strange not a single one met god) however a book almost 2000 year old diluted with exaggeration over time is plausable. You cannot reason with people like this. If you could there would be no religious people left

Don’t fall for logical fallacies, they are irrational .

 

[abandonallhope]

Typical. Deflecting from the question. You know full what what I mean.

Deflecting from the question ?

Do you profess to be a true christian which claims that you have the correct faith interpretation of the bible and the others are wrong.

I strive to be a christian yes, but there are countless others who, like me, use the standard rules of interpretation when reading the Bible, just like any other book.

The point is if you profess to live like a christian, then you should live or at least try to live by the principles as provided by your spritual leader which is JC. And he (according to your text) taught love, tolerance and all that is good. You should live a righteous life through which your deed prove you to be a "paragon of virtue, kindness, and holy light".

If you profess to follow his teachings, but you do not live by those ideals, then surely you are deluding yourself. You can only be deluding yourself because you sure are not deluding anyone else.

A christian should never purport himself to be a "paragon of virtue, kindness, and holy light". Jesus Christ is. Strive to be like Christ, yes, but the damage has already been done and my sinful nature will continue to drag me down no matter how hard I fight it.

Anyway so you say Jesus taught tolerance. Have you searched the Bible for the word tolerance or tolerate lately ? You know the Bible very well apparently, so I'm sure you did. I'm also sure you would remember what 2 Timothy 4 says.

I am open to being wrong. I even said as much in this thread previously where I made a mistake.

Good.

And saying that 'generally they have no clue as to what a christianis' is total bull. And you know that.

No, you keep proving this statement true yourselves. Over and over and over.

You have no idea, and you deliberately refuse to learn too.

 

[abandonallhope]

The same reason your eye evolved in the first place. We create improved lenses, power efficent techniques ect ect

So if you were to poke my eye out, doctors can always just make me a new one and plug it back into the socket ? Since we have all this super cutting edge technology ?

This is a really stupid question really, if you cant answer it yourself then there is no hope for you

Hard to answer isn't it ? Might just get you thinking, wouldn't want that.

 

[Spizz]

Strive to be like Christ, yes, but the damage has already been done and my sinful nature will continue to drag me down no matter how hard I fight it.

Wow, I feel for you brother. It's easy to forget how much indoctrination some people have to overcome.

Game, set and match religion.

 

[Techne]

Wow, I feel for you brother. It's easy to forget how much indoctrination some people have to overcome.

Game, set and match religion.

That just comes across as terribly arrogant and condescending . As if the other person is a fool and you are not and you feel sorry for him...

 

[abandonallhope]

Wow, I feel for you brother. It's easy to forget how much indoctrination some people have to overcome.

Game, set and match religion.

Why do you feel for me ?

Do you think I'm punishing myself or something ? Or that I am missing out ? If so on what ? Or that I can't be happy ? Do you think I cannot or will not experience what you do ?

Why, please do tell ?

 

[drkev]

A christian should never purport himself to be a "paragon of virtue, kindness, and holy light". Jesus Christ is. Strive to be like Christ, yes, but the damage has already been done and my sinful nature will continue to drag me down no matter how hard I fight it.