Russia court outlaws 'extremist' Jehovah's Witnesses

NeonNinja

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#1
Russia's Supreme Court has accepted the government's request to designate Jehovah's Witnesses as an outlawed religious group, deeming it to be an extremist organisation.
The justice ministry argued that the group had distributed pamphlets which incited hatred against other groups.
Lawyers representing the group reject the claims and say they will appeal.
The denomination says it has 175,000 members in Russia - a country where it was persecuted during the Stalin era.
An estimated eight million people worldwide are part of the Christian-based movement, best known for going door-to-door looking for new converts.
Jehovah's Witnesses at a glance
Practitioners of the faith argue that it means their activities from now on will be criminalised.
The justice ministry urged the court to close the group's national headquarters near St Petersburg, Russian news agencies reported, in addition to banning some of its "extremist" publications.

One pamphlet distributed by the group quoted the novelist Leo Tolstoy as describing the doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery.
Officials have accused the religion of destroying families, propagating hatred and endangering lives.
Jehovah's Witnesses say the accusations are completely untrue. A spokesman told the AFP news agency that he was "shocked" by the ruling.
"I didn't expect that this could be possible in modern Russia, where the constitution guarantees freedom of religious practice," Yaroslav Sivulsky said.

The Jehovah's Witnesses group was founded in the United States in the 19th century.
They take most of the Bible literally and refuse blood transfusions. They are not seen by traditional Christian Churches as a mainstream denomination.
During Joseph Stalin's reign of terror in the Soviet Union it was outlawed and thousands of members were deported to Siberia. Other Christian groups were also persecuted.
As the Soviet Union collapsed, there was a revival of Christianity in Russia and the ban on Jehovah's Witnesses was lifted in 1991.
Gradually attitudes towards the movement hardened again and in 2004 it was accused of recruiting children and preventing believers from accepting medical assistance.
Human rights group Sova has argued that an "official repressive campaign" has been conducted against the movement for years and many of their members have been physically attacked.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39661339
 

Idiosyncratic

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#2
Not religious myself, but this is absolutely terrible and unacceptable. We are all believers of BS in one way or another, why restrict the freedom of a certain group without who many would never get anyone knocking on their door.
 

battmann

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#3
For good reason the Russians did this, this org is promoting nonsense, they have perverted the Bible with their own man made teaching. That's the first thing. The second thing is that they brain wash their members to believe that you have to work for a place in heaven, nonsense again. Thirdly they are highly controlled and led by the nose by their controllers, they are programmed to defend their religion to a ridiculous degree.
Note their religion, not the God of the religion.

The truth is that manipulation is witchcraft. And these poor people are manipulated and controlled. As with any occult they have no free thought.

Yet the truth of the Bible says where there is freedom there is liberty. True Christians are free, we are told to test and keep what is good. Jesus says His yolk is easy and the burden is light.
These guys are carrying donkeys around on their backs with big smile hoping to score a place in heaven.

To be assured of your salvation in Christianity is a free gift. Do one thing only and you are saved. Call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. That's repeated twice,
So it is sound doctrine. Romans 10vs13 and Acts 2vs 21.

This leads to Luke 10vs 20 which none of the other faiths have, assurance, complete.
Of this, that demons are subject to you and that the bouncer manning the door to heaven will find your name written in the book welcoming you in.

The problem I see with Christians in general is that they are ill equipped to notice the lies and perversions happening in front of their own eyes in their own so called faith is because they have zero knowledge on what the Word says so too, my people perish for lack of knowledge. Knowledge is a tool and it sets you up for victory in a time where chaos and lies are everywhere
 

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
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40,897
#4
For good reason the Russians did this, this org is promoting nonsense, they have perverted the Bible with their own man made teaching. That's the first thing. The second thing is that they brain wash their members to believe that you have to work for a place in heaven, nonsense again. Thirdly they are highly controlled and led by the nose by their controllers, they are programmed to defend their religion to a ridiculous degree.
Note their religion, not the God of the religion.

The truth is that manipulation is witchcraft. And these poor people are manipulated and controlled. As with any occult they have no free thought.

Yet the truth of the Bible says where there is freedom there is liberty. True Christians are free, we are told to test and keep what is good. Jesus says His yolk is easy and the burden is light.
These guys are carrying donkeys around on their backs with big smile hoping to score a place in heaven.

To be assured of your salvation in Christianity is a free gift. Do one thing only and you are saved. Call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. That's repeated twice,
So it is sound doctrine. Romans 10vs13 and Acts 2vs 21.

This leads to Luke 10vs 20 which none of the other faiths have, assurance, complete.
Of this, that demons are subject to you and that the bouncer manning the door to heaven will find your name written in the book welcoming you in.

The problem I see with Christians in general is that they are ill equipped to notice the lies and perversions happening in front of their own eyes in their own so called faith is because they have zero knowledge on what the Word says so too, my people perish for lack of knowledge. Knowledge is a tool and it sets you up for victory in a time where chaos and lies are everywhere
lol. The lack of self awareness...
 

Idiosyncratic

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#5
For good reason the Russians did this, this org is promoting nonsense, they have perverted the Bible with their own man made teaching. That's the first thing. The second thing is that they brain wash their members to believe that you have to work for a place in heaven, nonsense again. Thirdly they are highly controlled and led by the nose by their controllers, they are programmed to defend their religion to a ridiculous degree.
Note their religion, not the God of the religion.
I agree with the manipulation part, and despite not being religious, I concur with your assessment from a Biblical standpoint. However, it is not for the government to regulate religion. This loss, is a loss for all religious, and non-religious people alike - someone's freedom just got restricted by the government.

It's not on, people have a free will, and if they choose to become Jehovah's Witnesses, then that's their choice. At the end of the day, if you ignore warnings and still join them, then that's your problem. Banning the group won't kill the movement either, it may just force them underground a little, and this, as we've seen with persecution in China, almost always results in a sharp increase in their numbers! It's counterproductive.

Today it's the Jehovah's Witnesses, and people are pleased. Tomorrow it is Muslims, and nobody stands up for them, then it's Evangelicals, and nobody stands up for them, then Catholics, and so we see a breakdown in society. House Churches, which once formed the backbone of Russian Evangelical groups are now illegal if I recall correctly. It's not the government's responsibility to regulate religion.

If the followers of a certain group are abused in the context of the law (raped, beaten, molested, etc) and it's something that applies to the whole group, then I understand that government intervention is a must. But then most sane individuals won't join such a group if they are educated against its dangers.
 
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#6
To be assured of your salvation in Christianity is a free gift. Do one thing only and you are saved. Call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. That's repeated twice,
So it is sound doctrine. Romans 10vs13 and Acts 2vs 21.
It seems I have given a lot of women entry into heaven.





And by a lot I mean none :(
 

Cius

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#7
I believe in freedom of religion. JW's are not hurting anyone and are decent members of society. I do not agree with what they believe but don't think they should be banned either! Only possible legitimate reason to ban them is the whole refusal to do blood transfusions. Its about the only truly dangerous aspect of their religion.
 

Idiosyncratic

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#8
Only possible legitimate reason to ban them is the whole refusal to do blood transfusions. Its about the only truly dangerous aspect of their religion.
Agreed, but that doesn't justify banning an entire group of people's belief system. I'd understand if they'd force children requiring blood transfusions to receive them despite their parents' beliefs - not sure where I stand on implementing things like that by force, but I'd definitely understand. This is taking it to the next level though
 

Grant

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#9
Russia's Supreme Court has accepted the government's request to designate Jehovah's Witnesses as an outlawed religious group, deeming it to be an extremist organisation.
The justice ministry argued that the group had distributed pamphlets which incited hatred against other groups.
perhaps on the dotted line labelled "religion", someone may have used tippex and changed the name of the religion
 

Idiosyncratic

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#10
perhaps on the dotted line labelled "religion", someone may have used tippex and changed the name of the religion
Hell Grant, each to his own. Back in the day everyone was having fun banning homosexuality. Since then we've moved on. History will judge us as ignorant fools should we restrict the freedom of those we don't agree with.
 

chrisc

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#11
Friend's 18 year old daughter, a promising student who won a maths olympiad in 2000 and who received a UBS Bank scholarship for a French university died when her supposed minor tonsil operation went into difficulty and she was denied a blood transfusion. Her blood group precluded blood substitute.

So I have no sympathy whatever. This girl was my daughter's best friend
 

sajunky

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#12
Hell Grant, each to his own. Back in the day everyone was having fun banning homosexuality. Since then we've moved on. History will judge us as ignorant fools should we restrict the freedom of those we don't agree with.
We have we're moved on, but what is benefit for the society?

ReOP: Extremists are those who sacrifice poeple's lives for home made receipies for live. Blood tranfusion is an established lives saving service. Disregarding this fact makes Jehovah's extremists without quotes. It is similar in consequences to the ritual killing, which is a criminal offence in most of societies.
 

sajunky

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#15
Wasn't the reason the Russian government gave for banning them..
I don't know what is advertised reason nor a real one. I don't want to know. Russia do not belong to western culture, see by example how they deal with muslim republics. To judge one you must understand culture.

Regarding banning extremists, I don't think it was a good idea. More clever would be banning Jehovah's from what they used to do, not from their beliefs. By example banning them from walking door to door and destroying families, as it seems to be concern of people.

Russian generally don't care what you think about them and they have efficient system enforcing rules of law (historically), so if you are Jehovah's, better go to Jerusalem. ;)
 
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airborne

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#16
I don't think Russia really cares about their ideology, because as fundamentalist groups go the JW's are pretty tame.

It's probably rather that the JW's phone home/take orders directly from the mothership in the USA and they are a bit secretive, especially their regional headquarters are strictly off limits to anyone outside of the faith.

There would also be international missionaries stationed at the Russian Jw headquarters and Russia doesn't like foreign ngo type groups in the country that have non citizens over seeing operations.

Basically the Russian government doesn't like the USA nor private secretive organizations and they apparently have the idea that JW's are a spying asset of the a US government agency or hold such members within their ranks.

May even be true to a degree, the US government could easily stoop to the level of using a US religious organization as a vehicle to plant agents in Russia. It would be very convenient because there are probably not many other groups, if any, like the JW's that are so deeply imbedded in Russia and that have direct ties to the US.

Whatever the case may be the Russian government is crazy paranoid so anything vaguely secretive and with close Usa ties is going to get some heat, even just to use it as a proxy to irritate the US government.
 
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Swa

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#17
For good reason the Russians did this, this org is promoting nonsense, they have perverted the Bible with their own man made teaching. That's the first thing. The second thing is that they brain wash their members to believe that you have to work for a place in heaven, nonsense again. Thirdly they are highly controlled and led by the nose by their controllers, they are programmed to defend their religion to a ridiculous degree.
Note their religion, not the God of the religion.

The truth is that manipulation is witchcraft. And these poor people are manipulated and controlled. As with any occult they have no free thought.

Yet the truth of the Bible says where there is freedom there is liberty. True Christians are free, we are told to test and keep what is good. Jesus says His yolk is easy and the burden is light.
These guys are carrying donkeys around on their backs with big smile hoping to score a place in heaven.

To be assured of your salvation in Christianity is a free gift. Do one thing only and you are saved. Call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. That's repeated twice,
So it is sound doctrine. Romans 10vs13 and Acts 2vs 21.

This leads to Luke 10vs 20 which none of the other faiths have, assurance, complete.
Of this, that demons are subject to you and that the bouncer manning the door to heaven will find your name written in the book welcoming you in.

The problem I see with Christians in general is that they are ill equipped to notice the lies and perversions happening in front of their own eyes in their own so called faith is because they have zero knowledge on what the Word says so too, my people perish for lack of knowledge. Knowledge is a tool and it sets you up for victory in a time where chaos and lies are everywhere
It's a slippery slope. If we were to ban groups for promoting nonsense there are a lot more groups on the list and everyone has their groups they'd want banned. It is not the government's role to decide who is right or not but rather to uphold the liberty of all.

If they are indeed inciting hatred then fine but one should be careful in making such an assessment as words can be interpreted in many different ways.

Friend's 18 year old daughter, a promising student who won a maths olympiad in 2000 and who received a UBS Bank scholarship for a French university died when her supposed minor tonsil operation went into difficulty and she was denied a blood transfusion. Her blood group precluded blood substitute.

So I have no sympathy whatever. This girl was my daughter's best friend
I have sympathy but surely as she was 18 this was her decision. Transfusions are seen as a minor treatment in medicine so they wouldn't need permission from anybody else to do one. Indeed JWs normally discuss this beforehand and sign a liability waiver that they understand the consequences of their decision and hold doctors harmless.
 

LazyLion

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Mar 17, 2005
Messages
101,548
#18
I'm all for religious freedom, but these nutjobs deny their children medical treatment. So for that reason the ban is probably better for the kids... even if it saves just one life.
 
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