Russia court outlaws 'extremist' Jehovah's Witnesses

battmann

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
701
#22
No, I don't agree with you.
This is why. If you lead people, as a leader should, the measure of being a wise leader is to protect and prosper your people. Not lead them willingly to harm.
One of the many measures used to determine if something is good or bad is using the "reasonable man" measure. But
If the issue at hand is not just going to be solved this simply Then the question, would be fair, to all involved?
And who would benefit and at who's expense etc. Just to say that common sense would be looked at too.
The leaders have tools to assess and gauge if the the "religion" or issue at hand is going to benefit or harm their people.
And so a judgement call is made after having weighed the issues at hand and seeking out the best council available.
Boundaries like this serve and protect your subjects from harm.
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
20,211
#23
How do you gauge the issue? All too often when governments do they rule in ways we don't agree with and trample our rights. The term "separation of church and state" cuts both ways and it's a Christian concept to protect people from undue power by government because when they excercise undue power it's at everyone's expense.
 
Last edited:

sajunky

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
13,125
#24
I don't think Russia really cares about their ideology, because as fundamentalist groups go the JW's are pretty tame.

It's probably rather that the JW's phone home/take orders directly from the mothership in the USA and they are a bit secretive, especially their regional headquarters are strictly off limits to anyone outside of the faith.

There would also be international missionaries stationed at the Russian Jw headquarters and Russia doesn't like foreign ngo type groups in the country that have non citizens over seeing operations.

Basically the Russian government doesn't like the USA nor private secretive organizations and they apparently have the idea that JW's are a spying asset of the a US government agency or hold such members within their ranks.

May even be true to a degree, the US government could easily stoop to the level of using a US religious organization as a vehicle to plant agents in Russia. It would be very convenient because there are probably not many other groups, if any, like the JW's that are so deeply imbedded in Russia and that have direct ties to the US.

Whatever the case may be the Russian government is crazy paranoid so anything vaguely secretive and with close Usa ties is going to get some heat, even just to use it as a proxy to irritate the US government.
I have to agree on the above. I said in my earlier post that banning organisation was not wise, but I didn't take into consideration of US origin of the organisation (which is more business type than ideological) and Russian sensitivity on the spying issue. Nothing really has changed in people's minds from the Communism era, I forgotten for the moment. Everything makes a sense from now.
 

GforceD

Executive Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
7,315
#25
Wow a lot of people commenting here don't really know anything about what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Looks like most have only heard of other people's mistaken opinions of us.

When you talk about your dislike for Jehovah's Witnesses but you say something that's totally incorrect about us it really make one look foolish.

If you don't believe what we believe that's OK, your beliefs are your own. Just make sure you know what you talking about first.
 
Last edited:

sajunky

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
13,125
#26
Wow a lot of people commenting here don't really know anything about what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Looks like most have only heard of other people's mistaken opinions of us.

When you talk about your dislike for Jehovah's Witnesses but you say something that's totally incorrect about us it really make one look foolish.

If you don't believe what we believe that's OK, your beliefs are your own. Just make sure you know what you talking about first.
It is not a Church. It is totalitarian control over all members, a financial machinery. Sort of self-supporting Masonic organisation from one side and communist regime (which takes control over people's minds) from another.
 

The_Librarian

Another MyBB
Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
20,984
#27
Should be interesting to see if they will start to ban other religious groups as well.

A surefire way to get rid if JW's is to get a couple of SDA's to offer them Bible studies... seriously. We also got harassed by a group of JW's and when we offered them Bible studies, they never came around to bother us again.
 

The_Librarian

Another MyBB
Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
20,984
#28
Should be interesting to see if they will start to ban other religious groups as well.

A surefire way to get rid if JW's is to get a couple of SDA's to offer them Bible studies... seriously. We also got harassed by a group of JW's and when we offered them Bible studies, they never came around to bother us again.
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
20,211
#29
Should be interesting to see if they will start to ban other religious groups as well.

A surefire way to get rid if JW's is to get a couple of SDA's to offer them Bible studies... seriously. We also got harassed by a group of JW's and when we offered them Bible studies, they never came around to bother us again.
Bible studies shouldn't really matter seeing they have their own Bible. Most likely they just don't want to see a Roman Catholic Bible. Ironic as they don't seem to know their own name is a made up concoction from the Catholic church.
 

airborne

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
9,169
#30
Wow a lot of people commenting here don't really know anything about what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Looks like most have only heard of other people's mistaken opinions of us.

When you talk about your dislike for Jehovah's Witnesses but you say something that's totally incorrect about us it really make one look foolish.

If you don't believe what we believe that's OK, your beliefs are your own. Just make sure you know what you talking about first.
Please show the context and please feel free to correct what you believe is not accurate.
 

GforceD

Executive Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
7,315
#31
Please show the context and please feel free to correct what you believe is not accurate.
Well you can't really reason with people online, most will just troll just because they can but people make statements like they are an authority on the matter but are incorrect.

Like while your comment is fairly unbiased and you are most likely correct about the Russian not liking the fact that the JW headquarters are in the USA but then you then say.
their regional headquarters are strictly off limits to anyone outside of the faith.
but that's not true the public are welcome to tour any of the facilities around the world. Anything you see on our website is all there is to Jehovah's Witnesses. We not a secret cat sacrificing cult like a guy I went to school with thought.

Then there are comments like this.
The truth is that manipulation is witchcraft. And these poor people are manipulated and controlled. As with any occult they have no free thought.

These guys are carrying donkeys around on their backs with big smile hoping to score a place in heaven.
I am not going to heaven it's not what I believe. I do not find what I do a burden.

Do you know most churches charge for wedding and funeral services, and demand their adherents tithe,( give 10% of their salary.)
Jehovah's Witnesses do not.

People lie about us a lot and I get rather defensive because the image people paint of us is mostly incorrect. And I know those who dislike us won't be swayed by a forum post. All I know is many decent people, many families are going to get persecuted because of this Russian ban, and that's very sad.
 
Last edited:

sajunky

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
13,125
#32
Well you can't really reason with people online, most will just troll just because they can but people make statements like they are an authority on the matter but are incorrect.
If you refer to the following statement, it is not a troll it is a fact:
It is not a Church. It is totalitarian control over all members, a financial machinery. Sort of self-supporting Masonic organisation from one side and communist regime (which takes control over people's minds) from another.
 

airborne

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
9,169
#33
Well you can't really reason with people online, most will just troll just because they can but people make statements like they are an authority on the matter but are incorrect.

Like while your comment is fairly unbiased and you are most likely correct about the Russian not liking the fact that the JW headquarters are in the USA but then you then say.


but that's not true the public are welcome to tour any of the facilities around the world. Anything you see on our website is all there is to Jehovah's Witnesses. We not a secret cat sacrificing cult like a guy I went to school with thought.
If you make an appointment you'll get escorted around the premises for a limited tour of the complex and get given a talk or 2.

Otherwise if you are not a Jw you are strictly forbidden to be on the premises, it's a bit like a civilian military base, there is a implication of secrecy/covertness. Whether that is intentional or not it still would get the attention of draconian type governments.

Granted apart from the ideology itself not much untoward seems to go down at these places but the Russian government always wants the monopoly on secrecy where they feel necessary, so it's not surprisingly this organization with its direct US ties is in its sights currently.
 
Top