Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition Part 1

[surface]

I'm talking about evidence, they admitted they have none

what they "think" is "obvious" has no bearing whatsoever on the truth

Yes, right now. Remember we trust Pentagon, okay? I mean you cited Pentagon so....

Kirby added: “Now exactly who – what units, whether they’re contractors or Chechens – I don’t think we are able to say right now. But we’re certainly not refuting that these atrocities occurred and occurred at the hands of Russians.”

 

[surface]

Am genuinely intrigued as to what "action" will follow....

As per right wingers here, Elon is gonna smack Parag and show him his place. Other action will follow later.

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

So now we know why Trump kept harping on the old "fake news" tune.
Got his orders straight from Putin, I'll be bound - just get those folk who think they're so edgy to call "fake news" on anything which doesn't align with the world as they wish it was.

 

[MiW]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511444940231954445

If you are outraged, just don't forget to condemn the killing of Russian POWs

 

[hexagon]

And this is a stock image of scientists , not the actual scientists mentioned in the article.

What's your point?

It is widely acknowledged that scientists exist. That they could freelance is plausible. That they are not the exact individuals playing with microscopes is not germane to the article's contents.

On the other hand, vanishingly few have experience with the claimed "mobile crematoria" and the image is relevant. When it turns out (later in that exact thread) that the company alluded to does in fact make crematoria but none of them are mobile and are actually sold to funeral homes, the claim that Russia has been driving them around Ukraine in droves becomes very firmly placed into the well-established genre of "wartime propaganda".

 

[Fulcrum29]

War crimes by any side should be investigated. No excuses.

War crimes in this war is going to be a stumble block once these matters get to the courts. For one, neither Ukraine nor Russia are signatories to the Rome Statute. This is why the EU decided on supporting Ukraine to pursue the Bucha Massacre, but mostly what is being observed as war crimes, by either side, is more likely to be heard and investigated (as lead) by Ukraine, so I doubt there will be impartiality. I don't see the West supporting Russia to pressure Ukraine to prosecute Ukrainian committed war crimes because they supplied the ‘machine’.

Time will tell. I am not keen on discussing historical examples, as it would be better discussed in its own thread since it involves nations best not discussed in this thread, but nations who aren’t party to the Rome Statute… they aren’t best tried by the ICC, UN members can, however, still pursue the ICJ, but either way, these international courts will insist on these matters investigated by the respective parties involved. As said, Ukraine’s state will remain primarily responsible, but I don’t see them prosecute their own, nor do I see Ukrainians who have been observed to have committed war crimes against Russians turned into Russian custody to be trialled in Russia.

Then there are groups like the mercenaries hired by Russia and the volunteers, pending on the contract, who came to Ukraine’s aid. Plausible deniability. The army also tends to protect its own, and National Guards aren't the army, so responsibility and accountability can easily get 'lost' in translation within these ranks and ministries.

It is all sad, but things like this do need a dedicated thread, otherwise, it muddies the current events. I would wait until it gets to that point in any case to better gauge the merits, which we don't have at this time since there are no approved and validated investigations.

 

[Solarion]

"We had such hopes for your new era and I'm even going to toss in a court interdiction party cake to reinforce my hopes in you." - George Galloway

This ****ing guy.

 

[tetrasect]

The outcry against the Russians and the outcry against the Ukrainians are disproportionate. I should have probably said only a few members are condemning the actions of the Ukrainians in that video.

We cant say " look at what the Russians did to civilians, they are barbarians " but when the Ukrainians does it its "hey, is that a packet of chips over there?"

The actions of the Ukrainians are barbaric. However you can't expect the outcry when Ukrainian civilians get tortured and executed to be the same as when invading Russian soldiers (who very well may have been the ones torturing and executing civilians) get executed.

We condemn the executions in the strongest possible sense, however the level of injustice (which is what causes an outcry) pales in comparison to what the Russians did in Bucha.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

The actions of the Ukrainians are barbaric. However you can't expect the outcry when Ukrainian civilians get tortured and executed to be the same as when invading Russian soldiers (who very well may have been the ones torturing and executing civilians) get executed

disgusting hypocrisy confession

 

[Nicodeamus]

I am sure Russia will veto any resolution calling for an investigation, and Ukraine, or other western allies will veto the Russian calls for an investigation. Both sides will be outraged by the vetoes.
For me, both sides should be investigated.

international law is always used for convenience by the permanent members of the security council, a point that I made earlier.
There isn't might moral ground for the US, France or UK to argue that one should respect another country's sovereignty as they violate it all the time. The US goes further by allowing their strategic allies, Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia to violate it when it's in their geopolitical interests to do so.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Russia has pretty much withdrawn from Kiev and Established a land corridor to Crimea.

let's hope that the fighting ends,

 

[MiW]

The EU ban on Russian coal has been delayed a month after pressure from Germany - report | Business Insider

European envoys are to vote Thursday on the plan to reduce EU dependence on Russian energy after the invasion of Ukraine.

www.businessinsider.co.za

Surprised

 

[Impala]

omg, seriously ...

Burden of proof (law) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the. end.

Let us take an example from this thread. The Bucha killings.
Users post various articles, satellite photos, witness statements etc. as proof that Russia is responsible for the deaths of the civilians. In this case, these users are the applicants. The burden of proof shifts to the respondent to show why you are stating that it is false. You thus become a claimant and must therefore prove on the balance of probabilities that your claim is more probable than that of the applicants.

The issue here is we cannot really compare this to that of a court matter because who will be the presiding officer over this matter. These back and forth arguments will go on and will never end. Further, there is the law of evidence, which will exclude so many of the things users use to prove their statements.

So the main issue is that you are giving a statement that the articles are false without providing any evidence. So why are you saying it is false, you need to give something to show that your statement is not just an opinion but a statement of fact.

 

[hexagon]

MoD Russia

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry ▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine. High-precision ground-based missiles in Donetsk Region destroyed the command post of Ukraine's 56th Separate Motorized Infantry Brigade near Novogrodovka, as...

t.me

High-precision ground-based missiles in Donetsk Region destroyed the command post of Ukraine's 56th Separate Motorized Infantry Brigade near Novogrodovka, as well as a nationalist base in Grodovka.

High-precision air-based missiles in Kharkov Region destroyed a fuel depot near Chuguev from which fuel was supplied to Ukrainian troops.

In addition, a concentration of foreign-made weapons and military equipment supplied to the Ukrainian Armed Forces was destroyed at Lozovaya railway station in Kharkov Region.

✈️During the day, operational-tactical aviation hit 34 military assets of Ukraine. Among them: 1 artillery battery, 2 logistics depots, and 9 strong points and areas of Ukrainian military equipment concentration.

Russian anti-aircraft defence means shot down Bayraktar TB-2 unmanned aerial vehicle near Taranovka, Kharkov Region.

In total, 125 Ukrainian aircraft and 93 helicopters, 408 unmanned aerial vehicles, 227 anti-aircraft missile systems, 1,987 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 216 multiple launch rocket systems, 862 field artillery and mortars, as well as 1,888 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

N.B.

❗️According to confirmed information, the Ukrainian special services are preparing a serious provocation using poisonous substances in Pervomayskiy, Kharkov region.

▫️Security Service of Ukraine has mined a storage facility containing 120 tonnes of chlorine on the territory of the Khimprom production association.

▫️This storage facility is planned to be blown up in order to accuse Russia of allegedly causing a chemical disaster, which caused the death of local residents.

 

[Blu82]

MoD Russia

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry ▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine. High-precision ground-based missiles in Donetsk Region destroyed the command post of Ukraine's 56th Separate Motorized Infantry Brigade near Novogrodovka, as...

t.me

N.B.

I wonder if old ladies with poisoned food count as a chemical attack in the Russian play book?

 

[Impala]

international law is always used for convenience by the permanent members of the security council, a point that I made earlier.
There isn't might moral ground for the US, France or UK to argue that one should respect another country's sovereignty as they violate it all the time. The US goes further by allowing their strategic allies, Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia to violate it when it's in their geopolitical interests to do so.

On this, I agree with you, and it highlights the biggest problem with International Law. There is no one to enforce it, thus allowing the superpowers to break the law when it fits them. China, USA, Russia, UK are the biggest culprits here.

 

[MiW]

MoD Russia

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry ▫️The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine. High-precision ground-based missiles in Donetsk Region destroyed the command post of Ukraine's 56th Separate Motorized Infantry Brigade near Novogrodovka, as...

t.me

N.B.

Could MOD Russia please post how many civilians their army killed, or how many Russian and Ukrainian troops lost their lives in the not-war war, oh and if they figured out where is the Nazi bunker .

 

[Dave]

One thing to point here is how effective the Ukrainian indirect fire systems have been versus the Russian systems.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1511972577375399940

I'd add the fact the Russians seem to be unable to prevent the use of drones by Ukraine. It's one of the reasons the Ukrainians are so effective.

Wait until they complete training on the Switchblade systems for a further step up, I think.

 

[The_Mowgs]

If you are outraged, just don't forget to condemn the killing of Russian POWs

?

 

[tetrasect]

So the main issue is that you are giving a statement that the articles are false without providing any evidence. So why are you saying it is false, you need to give something to show that your statement is not just an opinion but a statement of fact.

You're talking to Narrowband, about facts? Good luck!