Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 2

[ForceFate]

Yes and?

Are you losing track of your own posts?

 

[rietrot]

UK Outraged After 2 British 'Mercenaries' Handed Death Sentences By Pro-Russian Donetsk Court | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Crazy stuff, live by the sword die by the sword, I guess.

Funny part UK not recognizing Donesk Republic means they can't negotiate.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

You seem a bit upset?

how so? seriously?

Interesting that the destruction of cities and murder of civilians doesn't seem to evoke such passion from you?

you mean the allegations made by Ukraine? yeah Ukraine's propaganda does not upset me at all, I trust Ukraine's word as much as Jacob Zuma's

Perceived misinterpretation of good 'ol Uncle Vlad and the f-bomb comes flying out.

"perceived"? that's quite disingenuous, you can clearly see a deliberate misinterpretation in the press by simply comparing it to the actual text

 

[MiW]

 

[MiW]

 

[Mirai]

No I said that next to Poland Ukraine can brag about being the country that killed the second most Jews.

Saying Poland was a country which killed the most Jews, means Poles killed millions of Jews.

Many Poles unfortunately did collaborate

We have to have context.

Collaboration in German-occupied Poland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unlike the situation in most German-occupied European countries where the Germans successfully installed collaborationist governments, in occupied Poland there was no puppet government.[7][11][12][13]

So comparison to France is off already. It's also not the case that the French were treated as Untermenschen as the Poles were. Nor were the Danes treated this way, your example. Nor the Belgians. Nor any Western Europeans west of Germany.

According to historian Gunnar S. Paulsson, in occupied Warsaw (a city of 1.3 million, including 350,000 Jews before the war), some 3,000 to 4,000 Poles acted as blackmailers and informants (szmalcowniks) who turned in Jews and fellow-Poles who provided assistance to Jews.[72] Grzegorz Berendt estimates the number of Polish citizens who participated in anti-Jewish actions as being a "group of dozens of thousands of individuals"

You have a big habit for cherry picking and being purposefully disingenuous.

You will of course ignore that it was the Polish government in 1942 which issued a report about the Holocaust to the Allies but it was dismissed as, POLISH and JEWISH propaganda. You'll also ignore that Poland had the most among the Righteous in Yad Vashem and entire organisations were devoted to save Jews, under penalty of death.

Daily Telegraph's holocaust article in 1942 that went unheralded

Newspaper tells tragic story behind its original report of the mass murder of Jews

www.theguardian.com

Yet the article, which referred to “the greatest massacre in the world’s history”, was published on the fifth page of a six-page issue. And it got no traction elsewhere.

Blair reports that when the Telegraph’s story appeared, Zygielbojm’s wife, Manya, and their son, Tuvia, were prisoners in the Warsaw ghetto. Both died during the razing of the ghetto in 1943.

As for Zygielbojm, he was dismayed at the public indifference to his detailed and chilling revelation of mass murder. And, crushed also by his family’s fate, he took his own life on 11 May 1943. He wrote:

“The responsibility for the crime of the murder of the whole Jewish nationality in Poland rests first of all on those who are carrying it out.

But indirectly it falls also upon the whole of humanity, on the peoples of the Allied nations and on their governments, who up to this day have not taken any real steps to halt this crime.

By looking on passively upon this murder of defenceless millions of tortured children, women and men they have become partners to the responsibility”.

So if the Daily Telegraph posted the article about the Jewish Holocaust on page 5 and nobody cared, one has to wonder how one can ascribe collaboration by virtue of inaction of Poles to Nazi occupiers in Poland, where the Poles themselves were actively being exterminated, as you know 3 million+ Polish Gentiles died in WW2 and most were civilians.

At the time in the US and UK few people thought the public would care, hence even Karski's report was not publicized much.

and their current government wants to downplay their role.

No their current government exempted academic research. They don't want Russian trolls to sh-t post their country. You're being intellectually dishonest.

So did many french for what it's worth. Finland also joined the Nazis in their fight against the USSR.
The difference though is that Ukraine has a Nazi movement that believes in its WW2 traditions and never went through denazification.

Nazis had to go to great lengths in Poland to discourage hiding of Jews or assistance to them. I wonder if you'd help a Jew if this was on the cards:

I remind you that according to the Third Decree of the General Governor's concerning the residential restrictions in the General Government of 10/15/1941 (VBL; abbreviation for Verordnungsblatt Generalgouvernement, p. 595) not only Jews who have left their designated residential area will be punished with death, but the same penalty applies to anyone who knowingly provides refuge (a hiding place) to such Jews. This includes not only the providing of a night's lodging and food, but also any other aid, such as transporting them in vehicles of any sort, through the purchase of Jewish valuables, etc.

 

[MiW]

 

[Mirai]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535328268567592960

 

[Mirai]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535043792935452681

 

[Mirai]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535125381920989185

 

[AfricanTech]

Didn't the communist Russians murder about 10 times the amount of people the Nazis killed? Nobody mentioned it just because they were an ally.


So, as a descendant, you are bound to do the same as your ancestors?



South Africa has a national holiday to celebrate the burning of schools. Is it a good thing?



When you live in a country, you speak the language of the country. Are you advocating the French change their language?



The Wolfsangel is not Buddhist. It's German. And not a Nazi symbol.

Trying to get that old merry go round of Bandera - Nazis - symbols going again.

So boringly predictable.

Also refuses to acknowledge that the USSR was, incredible as it seems, worse than the Nazis for some of occupied Europe during WWII.

Btw, came across an incredible estimation that in the history of the Soviet Union the Soviet State murdered probably 61,911,000 people, 54,769,000 of them citizens. (RJ Rummel).

Makes the Nazis look like pissants (albeit heinous and 2nd only to them) by comparison.

 

[Mirai]

Japan bans export of trucks & bulldozers to Russia in its latest round of sanctions

Amid the ongoing ravaging war in Eastern Europe, Japan has decided to ban the export of trucks and bulldozers to Russia as part of its new sanction package.

www.republicworld.com

 

[Nicodeamus]

‘Macron is right’ to want to avoid humiliating Russia, Le Pen and Mélenchon say​

In an interview with French broadcaster FranceInfo on Tuesday, Le Pen spoke a phrase rarely heard from her mouth: “The French president is right”. She was referring to Macron’s renewed call on the West to avoid humiliating Russia and its leader Vladimir Putin in a bid to offer Moscow a diplomatic way out of the war in Ukraine.

“The French president is right to try to find the means to stop this war through discussion, so that Ukraine regains its sovereignty, Russian troops leave Ukraine,” Le Pen said, who last month lost to Macron in the second round of the French presidential election. In a televised debate between the two final candidates, Macron shamed Le Pen over Russia, accusing her of being “dependent on Putin” due to loans granted to her party by a Russian bank. During her 2017 presidential run, Le Pen also accepted an invitation to meet Putin in Moscow.

During her time on air with FranceInfo, Le Pen also suggested that Ukraine’s criticism over Macron’s comment was off the mark. “I don’t understand why President [Volodomyr] Zelensky accuses him because he even says himself that the only way out of this is diplomacy”, she said, adding that “when you’re looking for a diplomatic exit, you try to avoid cutting off the communication channels”.

Le Pen then went on to criticise Macron over the French government’s embargo on Russian oil and gas imports. It’s “a stupid and harmful sanction for the French people", she said, noting that “the Russian oil we don’t buy will be sold to others“ anyway, and French energy prices will increase.

'One day Russia will come back to the table'​

Mélenchon, who hopes to score the prime minister post via the upcoming legislative elections, also lauded Macron’s stance on how to handle Putin.

“If, three weeks from now, I’m put in charge of taking care of this country together with him, it might be better if I don’t immediately provoke any incidents.“ He added that he didn’t think “the Ukrainians should talk to us like that“, since France "supports" Ukraine and is "providing it with arms".

"If President Macron is talking with Mr. Putin, I think he’s right to do so," he said, "because we must not let this man lock himself into a corner. But it would be naive to believe that by talking to him, we will make him leave Ukraine“.

‘Macron is right’ to want to avoid humiliating Russia, Le Pen and Mélenchon say

French President Emmanuel Macron last week sparked a tsunami of criticism after reiterating his call on the international community to “avoid humiliating Russia” over Ukraine. But three days ahead of…

www.france24.com

 

[AfricanTech]

You can never debunk an imbecile ... as proven numerous times in this very thread.

Yep.

Got to be disciplined though. So easy to rise to the bait.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I never denied Stalin's crimes.

But you never mention them either. You only mention the Nazi crimes because they suit the Ukraine = Nazi propaganda of Putin yearning for Stalins glory days of the USSR.

 

[Mirai]

Trying to get that old merry go round of Bandera - Nazis - symbols going again.

So boringly predictable.

Also refuses to acknowledge that the USSR was, incredible as it seems, worse than the Nazis for some of occupied Europe during WWII.

Btw, came across an incredible estimation that in the history of the Soviet Union the Soviet State murdered probably 61,911,000 people, 54,769,000 of them citizens. (RJ Rummel).

Makes the Nazis look like pissants (albeit heinous and 2nd only to them) by comparison.

100 million people

Top Russian Lawmaker Denies Communist Regimes Killed 100 Million People

A top Russian lawmaker calls the commemoration in the United States of a National Day for the Victims of Communism “propaganda” and dismisses the figure of 100 million victims of communist regimes as a number “pulled out of a hat.” In fact, that estimate is based on thorough research and...

www.polygraph.info

But some sources say up to 150 million people

The 100 million number is based on archival documents. “Hardly taken out of the clear blue sky,” said Paul A. Goble, former special advisor to the U.S. Secretary of State and a longtime specialist on ethnic and religious questions in Eurasia to Polygraph.info. “To get to 100 million, however, requires two things: a relatively high estimate of losses in China from starvation and killings during the Great Leap Forward, and the inclusion of losses of Soviet populations during wartime. With those added, the number is far above 100 million -- probably closer to 150 million.”

 

[Nicodeamus]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1535254137272733697

the pimps of war are doing their best to discredit independent journalists.

 

[Mirai]

‘Macron is right’ to want to avoid humiliating Russia, Le Pen and Mélenchon say

French President Emmanuel Macron last week sparked a tsunami of criticism after reiterating his call on the international community to “avoid humiliating Russia” over Ukraine. But three days ahead of…

www.france24.com

Does anyone really care what some French Putin debtors say?

 

[Solarion]

You seem a bit upset?

Interesting that the destruction of cities and murder of civilians doesn't seem to evoke such passion from you?

Perceived misinterpretation of good 'ol Uncle Vlad and the f-bomb comes flying out.

you mean the allegations made by Ukraine? yeah Ukraine's propaganda does not upset me at all, I trust Ukraine's word as much as Jacob Zuma's

Another evasive red herring.

Lets try that again.

The report by the UN.

Ukraine: civilian casualty update 1 June 2022

Date: 1 June 2022 From 4 a.m. on 24 February 2022, when the Russian Federation’s armed attack against Ukraine started, to 24:00 midnight on 31 May 2022 (local time), the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) recorded 9,094 civilian casualties in the country: 4,149 killed...

www.ohchr.org

 

[Nicodeamus]

But you never mention them either. You only mention the Nazi crimes because they suit the Ukraine = Nazi propaganda of Putin yearning for Stalins glory days of the USSR.

The relationship between Stalin and Russia is complex. Yes he was a mass murderer and a genocidal paranoid maniac, but Stalin also did lead the USSR against Germany and industrialize the country. Russia still is split on his legacy.

According to NYU professor and Nation contributing editor Stephen F. Cohen, half of Russia looks back to Joseph Stalin as a great leader and the other half as a genocidal murderer. This disconnect, and a longing for a stronger, more secure state, can be seen in the public debate over a memorial to the victims of the gulag, where more people died than in Hitler’s death camps.

It is in this heated context that Cohen tells the story of the victims and their struggle to reenter society in his new book, The Victims Return: Survivors of the Gulag After Stalin. The result of more than 30 years of research and personal experience, the work is a memoir as much as it is a history, and Cohen joins Laura in the studio to discuss the book and the ongoing struggle to reconcile the troubled period of Stalin’s rule in Russian history.