Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 4

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
76,565
To be fair all governments are corrupt af though and up to shady ****. Russia just went full retard. Tomorrow it will be someone else, my guess is the US or someone supposedly or supposed to be cool, calm and relatively collected. I'm guessing it's a NATO country that is going to do something really stupid next or even NATO itself. They are all idiots. As I said, Russia just blinked this time around. We can rage at then for a while and have a laugh. Hope France is next. Everyone loves taking the piss out of the French.

Did you mean to quote me?
 

tetrasect

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
9,105

Matata

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
3,433
Kadyrov's TikTok brigade "fighting on the frontline" aka shooting at random buildings.
Same thought occurred to me until I saw something shoot back at the vehicle. That might really be just partisan fighting or infighting. Really wonder about how many wagner vs pro-russian Chechen incidents have happened that are not documented as news items. If chechens are used as nkvd officers then there is bound to be retaliation somewhere.
 

The Trutherizer

Executive Member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
8,263

I found this interesting too

It’s not about proving something, it’s about casting doubt. This has always been a function of propaganda, like the tobacco companies trying to make people doubt whether their product causes cancer. But overall most political ideologies have not been about casting doubt — they’ve claimed to be telling the truth about the way the world is or should be.

But this new propaganda is different. Putin isn’t selling a wonderful communist future. He’s saying, we live in a dark world, the truth is unknowable, the truth is always subjective, you never know what it is, and you, the little guy, will never be able to make sense of it all — so you need to follow a strong leader.

This is the way it works now, only it’s spread from Russia across the world.

Sean Illing​

For your book, you went around the world talking to people on the front lines of this new information war — the propagandists, the spin doctors, the social media gurus. Do these people know what they’re doing? Do they care? Are they just nihilists?

Peter Pomerantsev​

This is very interesting to me. This is something I really wanted to work out. I talked to all kinds of people — troll farm workers, digital strategists, people who helped organized Brexit. To work in this space you have to be weirdly amoral. Most of them see themselves as political artists. They don’t really care about policies or ideas. It’s all just a kind of game and they’re able to dissociate themselves from the consequences

Edit: On that last bit around the amorality and dissociation from consequences. It should be pretty clear that this is symptomatically psychopathic. It's a psychotic methodology.
 
Last edited:

The Trutherizer

Executive Member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
8,263
Russian disinformation should be strongly combated by democratic nations. And by "strongly" I don't mean strong lip service. It needs to be ended.

Disinformation: false information deliberately and often covertly spread (as by the planting of rumors) in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth

It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It is not misinformation where people unknowingly spread falsehoods or their own crazy ideas true or false, or indeterminable. It is the deliberate dissemination of falsehoods for strategic purposes. Which include relatively common purposes such as increasing profitability for a given industry. A.K.A. marketing (but what do, amiright?) The real problem is when it is weaponised towards geo-political ends. It has long running harmful effect on global peace and stability, and is immensely damaging to public discourse. Everywhere.

The term in it's current form even originates from the KGB:

One of the prime examples where they used it was to plant rumours into international discourse that the US created HIV and AIDS. This falsehood is still with us today. It still divides people, races and even to some extent entire countries. It is still being amplified. There is still raging "debate" about it. It is still causing massive damage to the world. Even though the disinformation campaign is extremely well documented. Even with accounts from the proverbial horse's mouth - Russian agents who were involved in the operation. It's been with us for 40 goddamned years.

People need to wake up to the fact that Russia, under Putin (ex-KGB), is still employing this KGB handbook tactic at an immense scale, and to devastating effect. Internationally. For negative impact on democratic states. And beneficial impact on Authoritarian states.
And under Putin the principle mechanism has been division, division, division and more division. This is not to say that if the disinformation from Russia is ever successfully stopped that people will never be divided on issues anymore. There are always issues that people are divided on. However Putin's main strategy has been to use disinformation to amplify divisive rhetoric wherever it can be found to the point where resolving controversy is extremely difficult or impossible. While effective political debate lives and breaths in finding mutually acceptable compromise, Russian disinformation campaigns seek push people towards the ultimate extremes of opinion, and to paint compromise as an ultimate defeat. The end result - No resolutions. Which immensely weakens the target countries.
In Putin's world view any cooperation between any number of parties from which Russia does not derive the greatest benefit is a threat to Russia. That Putin conflates Russia's destiny with his own is an entire other discussion.

Prominent examples:
  • Divisions between the global East and West. North and South.
  • Division between countries - Between allied countries being first prize.
  • Divisions between provinces and states within countries and unions - Notably there is ample indication that Russia has stoked secessionist sentiment wherever it has been able to in the entire world. Brexit definitely. Even the recent Canadian secessionist movements were strongly amplified through Russian disinformation. And I will bet substantial money that even sentiments for the Western Cape to secede from South Africa was amplified by Russian disinformation. And of course - The examples in Ukraine are obvious.
  • Divisions between the left and the right of the political spectrum.
  • Divisions between religions
  • Divisions between races.
  • Divisions between political parties
  • Divisions between interest groups
  • Divisions between the sexes
  • Divisions between ideologies
  • Divisions on a wide range of [initially simply] controversial topics - The response to Covid being a primary example in recent years. With massive effort being expended by Russia to spread disinformation on the matter in the West. The FUD generated from it even being used for other divisive purposes (such as the previously mentioned Canadian secessionist movements). Covid was indeed... useful to Russian disinformation efforts. Notably no such effort was expended by Russia regarding the management of Covid in China. But then China also participated in spreading harmful Covid disinformation in the West.
Essentially. Anywhere Russia can find any point of contention, at a sufficient scale, among any group in the world of which Russia is not a benefiting member - Will be amplified through disinformation. For any such division is useful to Russia's strategic ambitions. That is Putin's way. He is such a fan of the method that he even employs the method inside Russia for his own political agenda.

It should be pointed out that it is not an entirely novel concept. History abounds with examples on a variety of stages. However arguably Russia has practically made it the core of its strategic doctrine, and employed it at a scale that approaches as close to absolute as they can manage.

It is actually at the point where it's changing humanity for the worse. It is a profound poisoning of the well. It needs to end.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert on the matter. This is how it appears to me. I think my observations on the matter, if not 100% accurate, is fairly close to it however.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top