Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 4

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Nicodeamus

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Grant said:
No matter the amount of whataboutism you employ, my point remains.
Putin has to be removed from office for Russia to save face & exit.
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you're obviously unfamiliar with Russian history, Stalin replaced Lenin and killed more people in a single day than the Tsar did in his entire reign of tyranny.
Putin is a former KGB office, if there is going to be a coup, except an even darker figure to grab power.

Also Yeltsin put more Journalists in jail than Putin and it's not even clear if it is him doing the killing as the Mafia is rampart in Russia.

About Russian journalists, there is, however, a significant, overlooked statistic. According to the American Committee to Protect Journalists, as of 2012, 77 had been murdered—41 during the Yeltsin years, 36 under Putin. By 2018, the total was 82—41 under Yeltsin, the same under Putin. This strongly suggests that the still–partially corrupt post-Soviet economic system, not Yeltsin or Putin personally, led to the killing of so many journalists after 1991, most of them investigative reporters. The former wife of one journalist thought to have been poisoned concludes as much: “Many Western analysts place the responsibility for these crimes on Putin. But the cause is more likely the system of mutual responsibility and the culture of impunity that began to form before Putin, in the late 1990s.”
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www.thenation.com

Who Putin Is Not

Falsely demonizing Russia’s leader has made the new Cold War even more dangerous.
www.thenation.com www.thenation.com

Also on the laughable claim that he is a Nazi. Putin is however a Russian nationalist with a too big ego.
§ More recently, there is yet another allegation: Putin is a fascist and white supremacist. The accusation is made mostly, it seems, by people wishing to deflect attention from the role being played by neo-Nazis in US-backed Ukraine. Putin no doubt regards it as a blood slur, and even on the surface it is, to be exceedingly charitable, entirely uninformed. How else to explain Senator Ron Wyden’s solemn warnings, at a hearing on November 1, 2017, about “the current fascist leadership of Russia”? A young scholar recently dismantled a senior Yale professor’s nearly inexplicable propounding of this thesis. My own approach is compatible, though different.

Whatever Putin’s failings, the “fascist” allegation is absurd. Nothing in his statements over nearly 20 years in power are akin to fascism, whose core belief is a cult of blood based on the asserted superiority of one ethnicity over all others. As head of a vast multiethnic state—embracing scores of diverse groups with a broad range of skin colors—such utterances or related acts by Putin would be inconceivable, if not political suicide. This is why he endlessly appeals for harmony in “our entire multi-ethnic nation” with its “multi-ethnic culture,” as he did once again in his re-inauguration speech in 2018.
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Nicodeamus

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Grant said:
Actual elections can be held, elections that include opposition parties
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The Russians overwhelmingly support Putin, the Russian Duma is much like SA despite elections it remains a one party state, except the official opposition party is the communist party.
 
Grant

Grant

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Nicodeamus said:
The Russians overwhelmingly support Putin, the Russian Duma is much like SA despite elections it remains a one party state, except the official opposition party is the communist party.
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The russians are kept in the dark as far as the dissemination of information is concerned.
They only hear what putin allows them to hear.
Putin says Russia strong, Russia is the strongest, Russia has all the money etc - they have no other opinion to listen to. Dissenting voices are silenced leaving only putin's narrative. The Russian populace are little different to mushrooms - they are kept in the dark and fed crap.
It is for these reasons putin has support - the people think everything is hunky dory.
 
TEXTILE GUY

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But like countless other young educated Russians, Sonya, who asked that only her first name be used, packed her bags and fled the country after Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24.
https://fortune.com/2022/08/20/russia-brain-drain-young-russians-leaving-after-ukraine-war-putin/
Over 3.8 million Russians left from January to March this year, according to the Federal Security Services’ own estimates. Some left for work or travel reasons, but many also left because of Russia’s war on Ukraine. Other estimates put the number of people who left because of the war at 300,000 to 3.8 million. The exact number is still unknown. A recent survey from non-governmental organization OK Russians says that the average age of Russians who left the country after Feb. 24 is 32 years old, while 80% of them have a higher education degree.
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Russia’s ‘second wave’ of migration​

Vladimir, whose surname has been removed due to the sensitive nature of the situation, is part of what he considers Russia’s “second wave” of migration following the war.This includes those who took longer to prepare to leave the country — such as people with businesses or families who wanted to let their children finish the school year before leaving.
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Nicodeamus

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Grant said:
The russians are kept in the dark as far as the dissemination of information is concerned.
They only hear what putin allows them to hear.
Putin says Russia strong, Russia is the strongest, Russia has all the money etc - they have no other opinion to listen to. Dissenting voices are silenced leaving only putin's narrative. The Russian populace are little different to mushrooms - they are kept in the dark and fed crap.
It is for these reasons putin has support - the people think everything is hunky dory.
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Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a

wikileaks.org
5. (C) Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.
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Guess who wrote that memo? The current CIA director.

In 2008 he went further.
progressivehub.net

Biden’s CIA Director Doesn’t Believe Biden’s Story About Ukraine

CIA Director William J. (Bill) Burns is one of the experts on the topic of Russia and he has very different opinions on how this crisis began
progressivehub.net progressivehub.net
Two years ago, Burns wrote a memoir entitled, The Back Channel. It directly contradicts the argument being proffered by the administration he now serves. In his book, Burns says over and over that Russians of all ideological stripes—not just Putin—loathed and feared NATO expansion. He quotes a memo he wrote while serving as counselor for political affairs at the US embassy in Moscow in 1995. ‘Hostility to early NATO expansion,” it declares, “is almost universally felt across the domestic political spectrum here.” On the question of extending NATO membership to Ukraine, Burns’ warnings about the breadth of Russian opposition are even more emphatic. “Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin),” he wrote in a 2008 memo to then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. “In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests.”
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You obviously don't get how big of a deal NATO expansion and Ukraine is for the Russians, they are almost unanimous in their support for Putin on this particular issue. The Russians see this war as existential, while the US still sees it as a minor incursion.
 
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The Trutherizer

The Trutherizer

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Paulsie said:
You can scream as much as you want, but Russia will not withdraw. If they did, they would lose everything.

As others said, Russia needs a way out. Without one, the war continues and people continue dying. If war continues, either Ukraine loses or Russia loses. If Russia loses, they then have nothing to lose further.
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Bull crap. If Ukraine loses they have nothing to lose further. Because that's the stakes Russia is playing for. Ukraine itself.
What you're spouting is the Kremlin line to keep Russians emotionally invested. In reality...

If Russia loses, then it still has all its internationally recognised territory. All its people who did not go and throw they're lives away trying to steal another determined nation's land for their overlords. About the only ones who might lose in Russia are the ones in charge. Debateable though - They have the iron fist fairly polished right now. For everybody else there the healing will start. The economy might even start recovering again without the billions and billions being burnt to fund the war.
There are always acceptable ways to survive far preferable to some suicidal charge.

So don't be so hysterical. If Ukraine's army was encircling Moscow or St Petersburg. Then maybe you'd have a point. But that was never Ukraine's ambition now was it?... As things stand nobody has even seriously eyed Kaliningrad. Nobody wants Russia's crummy land! They just want Russia's filthy mitts of their own land.
 
vaakseun

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buka001 said:
What does this Russian official mean?
fc18d6590cc6760ac5efe087b3124246.jpg
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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561088374701805575
 
Paulsie

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AfricanTech

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Cosmik Debris said:
And those kids will never believe you have that experience and have seen whatever the subject is yourself when they have only ever seen it on a screen and it may be manipulated.

Many om MyBB call me a liar for the amount of experience I can recount. So much so that my son advised me not to reveal any more of my experiences as he knows that kids these days will never see what we did and sit in front of screens these days.
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Yep, they haven't lived it and therefore don't believe it.

It's a phenomenon bred by the digital world we live in.

They see stuff on screen, they know that things on screen can easily be faked (since they grow up on a diet of fake via the big screen (movies), the medium screen (TV), and the small screen (phones and tablets), and, since digital content can literally be faked in their own bedrooms using tools they can access in seconds (tiktok, insta, youtube), they develop an innate belief that everything, even real life experience, is fake.

This culminates in idiotic statements such as "I'd like to see a nuke explode to see what happens".

They have no lived experience and don't trust/believe that the lived experience of older folk could possibly be real.
 
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