Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 4

[Mirai]

No, but I know a dumb comment when I see one.

I do get the feeling you and Nico are the same person.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Nobody claimed it would ever DEFINITIVELY protect you.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550126265490763785

it's more difficult to convince people that they have been conned even if the evidence hits them in the face.
The unvaccinated aren't dying in higher numbers and unvaccinated countries tend to be fine.

 

[Paulsie]

I do get the feeling you and Nico are the same person.

Bleieve me, it works both ways.

 

[Mirai]

There is no good evidence, the uncertainty lies in what the limit should be. The "fallback is the LNT model that we know is conservative, yet wrong" i.e. it has a safety factor.

If that was the case the scientific consensus would agree with the people who support this view. As they don't at present, it's not the case or at least it's not as clear cut as you claim it is.

 

[Mirai]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550126265490763785

it's more difficult to convince people that they have been conned even if the evidence hits them in the face.
The unvaccinated aren't dying in higher numbers and unvaccinated countries tend to be fine.

As per usual you argue in a strawman fashion. I don't remember anyone claiming Covid-19 vaccine was necessary for survival as you have framed it.

Ok so Biden saying you won't get Covid if you vaccinate is not the same as saying if you don't vaccinate you'll die.

Politicians generalise. What one needs to do is read what the actual medical establishment was saying.

 

[Nicodeamus]

If that was the case the scientific consensus would agree with the people who support this view. As they don't at present, it's not the case or at least it's not as clear cut as you claim it is.

They do to the point that even regulators have began to shift, but they are playing it safe until the data accumulates further. France in particular is ahead of the curve. We now that we are conservative, just not how conservative. Factor of 10, 100, 1000 who knows time will tell. What we do know is that in cancer treatment they easily exceed what is deemed safe by nuclear regulators.

Linear no-threshold model - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The French Academy of Sciences (Académie des Sciences) and the National Academy of Medicine (Académie Nationale de Médecine) published a report in 2005 (at the same time as BEIR VII report in the United States) that rejected the linear no-threshold model in favor of a threshold dose response and a significantly reduced risk at low radiation exposure:[52][53]

In conclusion, this report raises doubts on the validity of using LNT for evaluating the carcinogenic risk of low doses (< 100 mSv) and even more for very low doses (< 10 mSv). The LNT concept can be a useful pragmatic tool for assessing rules in radioprotection for doses above 10 mSv; however since it is not based on biological concepts of our current knowledge, it should not be used without precaution for assessing by extrapolation the risks associated with low and even more so, with very low doses (< 10 mSv), especially for benefit-risk assessments imposed on radiologists by the European directive 97-43.

 

[Mirai]

Bleieve me, it works both ways.

I find it strange that someone from Eastern Europe is so pro-Russian unless you're not from there or your relatives arrived there atop a tank in 1945. No offense meant at you. I have met pro-Russian people from the region but they're usually ex-communist party members and had cushy jobs or their grand pa had a cushy job and drank the KoolAid or benefited in ways. Again, no offense meant.

(I actually have relatives like that. They applied to emigrate to the West (and I mean Anglo-Saxon countries) back in the day and were turned down. They were applying from continental Western Europe. We never knew why until later we found out whose daddy or grand-daddy worked were. Western intel services were very good in the 80s.)

 

[Mirai]

They do to the point that even regulators have began to shift, but they are playing it safe until the data accumulates further. France in particular is ahead of the curve. We now that we are conservative, just not how conservative. Factor of 10, 100, 1000 who knows time will tell. What we do know is that in cancer treatment they easily exceed what is deemed safe by nuclear regulators.

Linear no-threshold model - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When all the regulators shift and when the establishment says people can return to Chernobyl, we'll talk.

When the French Academy of Sciences says, OK boys blow up that nuclear power plant and there is no risk, we can return to live and work there within days or weeks, I'll say the science is settled. Until then you're making a variety of outlandish claims and applying them here.

To say there is some skepticism about something doesn't mean the thing is invalid until it is wholeheartedly rejected (I assume with proper evidence).

 

[Mirai]

Ask your friend @Cosmik Debris for confirmation. I really don't feel like looking for the post.

And FYI, I double asked him, just to be sure.

I have followed some of what he said and he never claimed that as far as I know.

 

[Nicodeamus]

I find it strange that someone from Eastern Europe is so pro-Russian unless you're not from there or your relatives arrived there atop a tank in 1945. No offense meant at you. I have met pro-Russian people from the region but they're usually ex-communist party members and had cushy jobs or their grand pa had a cushy job and drank the KoolAid or benefited in ways. Again, no offense meant.

(I actually have relatives like that. They applied to emigrate to the West (and I mean Anglo-Saxon countries) back in the day and were turned down. They were applying from continental Western Europe. We never knew why until later we found out whose daddy or grand-daddy worked were. Western intel services were very good in the 80s.)

My experience working with Eastern Europeans is that they have a similar attitude to black africans with regards to Colonialism and Apartheid. They just cannot move on and constantly blame the Russians for their own failures. Almost as if being colonized was a badge of honor of sort. It's this victimhood that keeps them backwards and misled by their own leaders.

 

[Nicodeamus]

who is the threat to world security?

 

[Mirai]

My experience working with Eastern Europeans is that they have a similar attitude to black africans with regards to Colonialism Apartheid. They just cannot move on and constantly blame the Russians for their own failure.

Nico trying to get under my skin.

Russia deserves the blame though because Eastern Europe was destroyed and pillaged by Russia. Then we were held back and economically raped. Western Europe had free enterprise, Marshall Plan and aid in various forms, huge investments and governments which did a better job at looking after their people, while we were ruled over by hacks who came from Moscow and successive generations of hacks and killers. Maybe take the time to learn about the history of the region and the various countries before showing your ignorance.

We have moved on. Central Europe is doing much better than South Africa these days and that's only after 30 years of democracy and capitalism. We just don't want to have anything to do with Russia. And I keep telling you to be careful because our politicians were able to convert Hitler's little war into a world war, with more integration and better alliances now, that's an almost guaranteed fact. If Russia threatens NATO EE members, the whole NATO will be collectively responsible for defense.

You sure you're not Paulsie, this was addressed at him.

 

[Mirai]

View attachment 1369141

who is the threat to world security?

Russia.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Nico trying to get under my skin.

Russia deserves the blame though because Eastern Europe was destroyed and pillaged by Russia. Then we were held back and economically raped. Western Europe had free enterprise, Marshall Plan and aid in various forms, huge investments and governments which did a better job at looking after their people, while we were ruled over by hacks who came from Moscow and successive generations of hacks and killers. Maybe take the time to learn about the history of the region and the various countries before showing your ignorance.

We have moved on. Central Europe is doing much better than South Africa these days and that's only after 30 years of democracy and capitalism. We just don't want to have anything to do with Russia. And I keep telling you to be careful because our politicians were able to convert Hitler's little war into a world war, with more integration and better alliances now, that's an almost guaranteed fact.

You sure you're not Paulsie, this was addressed at him.

Are you sure that's not Malema writing your speech?

 

[Nicodeamus]

Russia.

at least you cannot say Iran from that map.

 

[Mirai]

Are you sure that's not Malema writing your speech?

So you're saying having Communism and Comecon imposed on you is not being economically held back?
We would not benefit from democracy, capitalism, Western investments or the Marshall Plan.

Are you sure you're not just parroting things without understanding as is your usual MO?

 

[Mirai]

at least you cannot say Iran from that map.

If Russia wants to a contender it has to bring something of value to the table beyond vodka, dancing bears and nukes.

 

[ForceFate]

View attachment 1369141

who is the threat to world security?

Kazakhstan doesn't host US military base afaik. Neither does any country in the north-western coast of Africa.

 

[Mirai]

Kazakhstan doesn't host US military base afaik. Neither does any country in the north-western coast of Africa.

That's one of those fake maps going around.

 

[Nicodeamus]

So you're saying having Communism and Comecon imposed on you is not being economically held back?
We would not benefit from democracy, capitalism, Western investments or the Marshall Plan.

Are you sure you're not just parroting things without understanding as is your usual MO?

Russia is no longer communist, you need to move on.