Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 5

[daveza]

It's hard to see an end-game in this conflict, but there are some undeniable ( among rational people ) realities.

Ukraine is not going to surrender.
Ukraine is not going to have an inch of territory 'annexed'.
Ukraine has the support of the West.

Russia is not going to win 'conventionally'.
By and large this is Putin's war, not Russia's war.
Russia's allies have no wish to become involved.
Win or lose, Russia led by Putin will be a pariah state.

So what are the options.

For Ukraine, defend their territory, don't attack targets inside Russia.

For Russia there are three possibilities.

Withdraw all forces from Ukraine, and
Remove Putin.

Neither of these two on their own will be enough for sanctions to be lifted.

The third option is obvious.
It will not win the war for Russia, it will not lift the sanctions.
The loss of Kyiv will not be worth the loss of Moscow.

In short, Ukraine just needs to carry on doing what they are doing.
Russia does not have that luxury.

Time will tell.

 

[The Trutherizer]

In many ways Vlad is making the standard mistake that dictators all do, they have their population under the boot and they don't revolt, so he assumes all people will respond in a similar vein but can't grasp how a Free Nation actually has its resolve to fight for freedom strengthened when its under threat.

Some of the recent videos of Putin he's blinking and wincing while talking. I think he's crazier than a cat on a hot tin roof at this point. Or just so strung out that the difference is semantic.

This whole thing is just exemplary of why a dictatorship built on lies is so nuts that the formation of anything like it should be guarded against rigorously. The UN can't stand back, NATO can't stand back, Ukraine for existential reasons can't stand back... Putin's Russia has just simply crossed too many lines. Russia is the one doing all the attacking. And the rest of the world should not have to just lie down and take it. (No matter how much simps might like that, sorry not sorry). Putin is trying to completely wipe all the lines for good. With one purpose. World domination by Russia. Or in more succinct terms - Turn the world into a mafia planet. A world where everybody has the rights of Russian citizens - Nada.
On the other hand in Russia the ones who should be moderating their batshit crazy leaders, i.e. the people themselves, are wrapped up in a cocoon of lies and seem to have been culturally engineered over generations into a state of political catatonia.

 

[RVQ]

It's hard to see an end-game in this conflict, but there are some undeniable ( among rational people ) realities.

Ukraine is not going to surrender.
Ukraine is not going to have an inch of territory 'annexed'.
Ukraine has the support of the West.

Russia is not going to win 'conventionally'.
By and large this is Putin's war, not Russia's war.
Russia's allies have no wish to become involved.
Win or lose, Russia led by Putin will be a pariah state.

So what are the options.

For Ukraine, defend their territory, don't attack targets inside Russia.

For Russia there are three possibilities.

Withdraw all forces from Ukraine, and
Remove Putin.

Neither of these two on their own will be enough for sanctions to be lifted.

The third option is obvious.
It will not win the war for Russia, it will not lift the sanctions.
The loss of Kyiv will not be worth the loss of Moscow.

In short, Ukraine just needs to carry on doing what they are doing.
Russia does not have that luxury.

Time will tell.

Yeah, I feel like this will become Russias Afghanistan... well I guess their Afghanistan 2.0.
A long and protracted war that will just result in nothing gained except billions wasted in military and arms with the added pains of decades of damage to their economy and nation.

 

[MiW]

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Labour flight from Germany can be expected. The USA hopes it can scoop up the talent. The Germans look like they are dumb enough to fall for this USA strategy.

Once again. Post the source so that I can read it myself and see the omissions.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Don't be mean to the boomers, they are just trying to be relevant. Rather ask them about the good old days and how great they are. That is all they remember.

They remember being under constant threat of nuclear annihilation with nuclear attack drills at school. Something you never had to fear.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Don't be mean to the boomers, they are just trying to be relevant. Rather ask them about the good old days and how great they are. That is all they remember.

Something for you:

A still earlier, and better recorded, raid took place the night before, on 15 August. 30 bombers targeted RAF Croydon aerodrome, which was then considered part of Surrey rather than London. Several people were killed, with damage to the aerodrome and nearby housing.

So the answer to the question of the title is difficult to pin down. It depends on your definition of London, and level of precision. The bomb on Fore Street, however, seems to be the earliest in central London whose exact location is known.

Where Did The First Bomb Of The Second World War Strike London?

Explosive history.

londonist.com

 

[MunosMachos]

They remember being under constant threat of nuclear annihilation with nuclear attack drills at school. Something you never had to fear.

Ah there we go. The real reason the boomers support all this hatred, Russophobia and escalation. They want the good old days to come back and the younger generations to experience it. No thanks. F off. Stop this war now, get a deal for peace.

 

[MunosMachos]

Something for you:

A still earlier, and better recorded, raid took place the night before, on 15 August. 30 bombers targeted RAF Croydon aerodrome, which was then considered part of Surrey rather than London. Several people were killed, with damage to the aerodrome and nearby housing.

So the answer to the question of the title is difficult to pin down. It depends on your definition of London, and level of precision. The bomb on Fore Street, however, seems to be the earliest in central London whose exact location is known.

Where Did The First Bomb Of The Second World War Strike London?

Explosive history.

londonist.com

You are struggling to keep up again. I didn't have this conversation with you.

 

[wingnut771]

Ah there we go. The real reason the boomers support all this hatred, Russophobia and escalation. They want the good old days to come back and the younger generations to experience it. No thanks. F off. Stop this war now, get a deal for peace.

What would this "deal" look like?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Dont hold back, show us your wrath,

Shakin' in me boots, I am.

 

[Sneeky]

Once again. Post the source so that I can read it myself and see the omissions.

I cant remember ever having reported any post to admins since joining this forum years ago.
@MunosMachos is on their way to being the first, for spreading known fake news if the below is true and they continue to do so.

It's from a supposed RAND Corporation report - however, it can only be found on the kookier sides of the web, e.g. https://vk.com/@petri.krohn-rand-weakening-germany-strengthening-the-us

RAND itself has said that it is fake: https://www.rand.org/news/press/2022/09/14.html

For Release
Wednesday
September 14, 2022

A supposedly leaked RAND report about a bizarre U.S. conspiracy to “weaken Germany” is fake.

Genuine RAND research, analysis, and commentary on the war in Ukraine may be found at this page.

Given the potential origins of this fake document, we encourage you to explore this resource on the “firehose of falsehood” approach to propaganda and RAND's extensive research on “Truth Decay,” a phenomenon driven in part by the spread of disinformation.

 

[Paulsie]

We can all see where this is going. Epic goal post whataboutisms and deflection from both sides. My brain has had enough. Goodbye.

Nobody wants to negotiate with Putin - fair enough. Why nobody at all is calling for ceasefire is beyond me.
Regardless of what lies ahead, sometimes one just needs to break up the fight and cool heads.

 

[ForceFate]

Ah there we go. The real reason the boomers support all this hatred, Russophobia and escalation. They want the good old days to come back and the younger generations to experience it. No thanks. F off. Stop this war now, get a deal for peace.

Perhaps that message should be directed at the aggressor. Who's on the wrong side of the border? But who invaded? Who escalated this war?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Dont hold back, show us your wrath,

 

[ForceFate]

What would this "deal" look like?

"Cede entire southern territories, demilitarise, become our vassal state"

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Ukraine is not going to surrender.

perhaps

Ukraine is not going to have an inch of territory 'annexed'.

that ship sailed back in 2014, are you kidding?

Ukraine has the support of the West.

indeed, yet nobody is truly thinking about why that is ...

Russia is not going to win 'conventionally'.

they can and they will

By and large this is Putin's war, not Russia's war.

patently false, Putin's approval ratings are through the roof

Russia's allies have no wish to become involved.

tell that to China & India buying record amounts of Russian energy, or Belarus getting ready to mobilise ...

Win or lose, Russia led by Putin will be a pariah state.

nobody cares, the winner takes all, the world will accept it like it always has in the past

So what are the options.

given that you got most of the above wrong, your take on options start off with a shaky foundation at best

 

[MunosMachos]

What would this "deal" look like?

In a perfect world I will accept a deal whereby all the billionaires, politicians and media people that support this war are locked up in a room and forced to fight to the death. The last man standing gets shot in the head. But hey, anything less to stop the war will be fine.

I cant remember ever having reported any post to admins since joining this forum years ago.
@MunosMachos is on their way to being the first, for spreading known fake news if the below is true and they continue to do so.

You do that. Just remember this post:

Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 5

Yeah I'm a decent human being as long as I agree with you. Thank you for your approval :thumbsup: Agree that Russia massacring Ukrainian civilians is not OK? Yeah.

mybroadband.co.za

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Ah there we go. The real reason the boomers support all this hatred, Russophobia and escalation. They want the good old days to come back and the younger generations to experience it. No thanks. F off. Stop this war now, get a deal for peace.

I can promise you, you that never lived under the fear of nuclear annihilation, that nobody wants that fear back. You have absolutely no clue what you are speaking about.

 

[tetrasect]

It's hard to see an end-game in this conflict, but there are some undeniable ( among rational people ) realities.

Ukraine is not going to surrender.
Ukraine is not going to have an inch of territory 'annexed'.
Ukraine has the support of the West.

Russia is not going to win 'conventionally'.
By and large this is Putin's war, not Russia's war.
Russia's allies have no wish to become involved.
Win or lose, Russia led by Putin will be a pariah state.

So what are the options.

For Ukraine, defend their territory, don't attack targets inside Russia.

For Russia there are three possibilities.

Withdraw all forces from Ukraine, and
Remove Putin.

Neither of these two on their own will be enough for sanctions to be lifted.

The third option is obvious.
It will not win the war for Russia, it will not lift the sanctions.
The loss of Kyiv will not be worth the loss of Moscow.

In short, Ukraine just needs to carry on doing what they are doing.
Russia does not have that luxury.

Time will tell.

I rate this war will end not on the battlefield, but in the Kremlin.

Russia's economy is screwed.
Their stock market has lost almost 60% of it's value.
The smart Russians have left and the non-stupid ones are queuing at the border.
Their production capacity is in steady decline.
Their military stockpiles are largely depleted.
Putin's popularity is dropping fast.
Their propaganda is failing because it is aimed at making people disengage from politics and care only about themselves while they simultaneously demand maximum engagement through mobilization.

Russia is falling into a state of disarray, and if the EU can impose a price cap on Russian oil and gas then that's the final nail in the coffin for them.