Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 5

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BBSA

BBSA

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NarrowBandFtw said:
anything east of Berlin was never in NATO at the time of the promise

are you under the mistaken illusion that there aren't any NATO members east of Berlin today?
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What promise?
Sneeky said:
www.nato.int

NATO Review - NATO enlargement and Russia: myths and realities

Part of the Russian narrative of the past 20 years is that the West reneged on promises not to enlarge NATO membership up to Russia's borders. But this is not a pledge included in any official treaties or agreements. So where did the story come from? Michael Rühle takes on the myths and...
www.nato.int
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Matata

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Paulsie

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tetrasect said:
This is one of the more clueless things you have said in a while.

Putin will not cease fire. That's the fcking problem.

I do agree that the UN should send a peacekeeping force into Ukraine to help them defend their borders from the invading Russians though.
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Has anyone tried yet?

I'm not talking negotiations yet, simply ceasefire.

As they say - everything in this world is negotiable.
 
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MiW

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Matata said:
I am gonna take this tweet with a pinch of salt because I have not seen any evidence for it yet, although it could really be intriguing if it is really the case:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579504475202781184


Edit. Also saw this article today:

www.reuters.com

Poland advises its citizens to leave Belarus

Polish citizens in Belarus should leave the country, Warsaw said on Monday, as relations between the two countries become increasingly tense in part due to the war in Ukraine.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
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Thats the only info I find and know it's highly reliable

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579388379036528643
 
Sneeky

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Matata said:
I am gonna take this tweet with a pinch of salt because I have not seen any evidence for it yet, although it could really be intriguing if it is really the case:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579504475202781184


Edit. Also saw this article today:

www.reuters.com

Poland advises its citizens to leave Belarus

Polish citizens in Belarus should leave the country, Warsaw said on Monday, as relations between the two countries become increasingly tense in part due to the war in Ukraine.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
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More reason why longer range strike capability is need to effectively be able to disrupt supply lines and prevent Belarus from being a mustering point.
Blow up a few cattle trains to destroy the rail infrastructure, if it happens that the cows are russian soldiers in disguise, oops.
 
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Mirai

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Paulsie said:
8

Has anyone tried yet?

I'm not talking negotiations yet, simply ceasefire.

As they say - everything in this world is negotiable.
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Perhaps send a letter to your European president. He must be an idiot to not have thought up these golden nuggets himself.. Maybe use that as a platform to run in future elections? If we all sing Kumbaya, the Russians who entered a sovereign territory, which did not attack them first, will just mellow out and we'll all gather round the bonfire roasting marshmallows and drinking kwas. Putin will come too. Bring some vodka. A dancing bear or two and maybe Tatu will sing for everyone.
 
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buka001

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Some updates on the bridge.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579489296569888769

One question I have,is did the Ukrainian time this explosion to occur when that train was crossing at the same time? Or was that luck?

Note - I don't agree with some of the annotations about Precision Munitions and Temporary support pier.

Found the photo to be illuminating though.
 
The Trutherizer

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Sneeky said:
www.nato.int

NATO Review - NATO enlargement and Russia: myths and realities

Part of the Russian narrative of the past 20 years is that the West reneged on promises not to enlarge NATO membership up to Russia's borders. But this is not a pledge included in any official treaties or agreements. So where did the story come from? Michael Rühle takes on the myths and...
www.nato.int
Click to expand...
At the time the idea was thoroughly absurd in any case. The contentious instances where NATO expanded into countries eastward are all characterised by the common property that they were part of the USSR at the time.

So yeah - What would the negotiations have been? "Promise not to expand into the USSR?" About as silly an idea as including promises by the USSR to not expand into and build a base in Las Vegas would have been. Utterly nonsensical in the context.

Any assurances which were given was all about NATO bases in East Germany, and NATO has kept to that agreement to this very day.
 
tetrasect

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Mirai said:
Great posts on the Loadshedding forum BTW.

This commitment, It's like me committing that wingnut771 will not smoke again.

Whatever BS promise was allegdely made to Gorbachev as claimed was not in the power of those making that promise. The US president and his state dept secretary are under the US Constitution and neither that, nor any act of US Congress makes any verbal promise, as is insinuated, binding on subsequent administrations. If Gorbachev was stupid to believe this, that's his problem. It's strange that a first secretary of the Communist party could be this stupid. But that's Russia. The NATO charter was also not modified to exclude countries of the former Eastern Bloc. It's absurd to claim that because of some verbal promise that one US president made to a leader of a state which no longer exists, America cannot enter into defensive pacts with democratic countries in central and eastern Europe.

I guess Gorbachev should have insisted that this was codified in US law and in the NATO constitution. So either the man was a total idiot or the whole thing was seen as a temporary thing at best.
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This is Gorbachev's statement on the matter:

The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either.
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