Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 5

Status
Not open for further replies.
Vorastra

Vorastra

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
14,125
wingnut771 said:
Is that a power station? Looks like that was the target, both "precision" missiles missed.
Click to expand...
They didn't miss.

The first missile hit the substation or gas distribution building next to the power station (Київська ТЕЦ-5).
This building.

Київська_ТЕЦ-5_взимку_draw.jpg

2.png

The second missile was dumped into the river probably because the first hit it's target.
It landed over a kilometre away.

Bonus, here's the filming location:

1.png
 
tetrasect

tetrasect

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
9,105
wingnut771 said:
Russia seems to be exactly like the USSR.

I went on a holiday in Croatia, bullet holes everywhere. Yugoslavia should complain to the UN.
Click to expand...

NATO has it's origins in the treaty of Dunkirk which was signed on 4 March 1947, between France and the United Kingdom as a Treaty of Alliance and Mutual Assistance against a possible German attack in the aftermath of World War II.

In March 1948, this alliance was expanded to include the Benelux countries, forming the Brussels Treaty Organization.

America wanted to join as well after witnessing communist aggression in Czechoslovakia in 1948.
On 4 April 1949, the alliance was expanded once more to include the United States, Canada, Portugal, Italy, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland, forming the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

So while NATO "technically" was created out of fear of the USSR, it was also technically just an expansion of previous treaties which had it's origins in defending against Germany.
 
M

MunosMachos

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
864
This Russian commander-in-chief Surovikin sounds like bad news. Known to the Russians as “General Armageddon" or “Cannibal”. Looks like he is going for the shock and awe tactic by overloading air defenses and blowing up electrical infrastructure.

Now is a good time for Zelensky to negotiate. Later he might have to negotiate with smoke signals and pigeons.

Winter is also coming so when the ground freezes and Ukraine is bombed back into the dark ages with North Korean purchased missiles, Russia will try to mop up Ukrainian forces.
 
daveza

daveza

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
47,671
MunosMachos said:
Winter is also coming so when the ground freezes and Ukraine is bombed back into the dark ages with North Korean purchased missiles, Russia will try to mop up Ukrainian forces.
Click to expand...


So even when the Ukrainians are bombed into the dark ages, Russia's chances of total victory only rate a maybe ...
 
Cosmik Debris

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
35,150
Matata

Matata

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
3,429
Cosmik Debris said:
They will still need a human to pull the trigger. The machines can never be autonomous with no human input. Legal reasons require someone to be responsible for killing another human being in a war.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree. I am just saying in the future it might be (that does not mean it will be like that because the human element is still needed) an army with drones (with humans pulling the trigger in the background) attacking instead of brigades of humans at the frontline.
 
M

Mirai

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
11,243
tetrasect said:
This is Gorbachev's statement on the matter:
Click to expand...

There have been some other quotes posted here and other materials where some talk exists that maybe some sort of verbal "promise" may have been offered to Gorbachev, but I think it's as Willie says. Even if Baker and Bush at the time said no NATO expansion east (I'm simplifying the language here) it would not be a valid promise to make, for many reasons. No ratification would be one. Not written down. But even if written down, Bush/Baker could not make promises for future US administrations, nor was any treaty ironed out as to how long this would last and what it would entail. Finally USSR was no more. Gorbachev would have to be a naive amateur to take any such jest at face value or any serious Russian politician to really believe this would mean anything.

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents
nsarchive.gwu.edu nsarchive.gwu.edu

Of note, Mitterrand of France at the time said this:

"The French leader Francois Mitterrand was not in a mind-meld with the Americans, quite the contrary, as evidenced by his telling Gorbachev in Moscow on May 25, 1990, that he was “personally in favor of gradually dismantling the military blocs”
Click to expand...

Was this a promise too? Because that hints at a promise, an implied *wink* *wink* type of promise. So why are Russians not upset with Macron for not following up on what Mitterrand hinted at?

Despite all of this, this is all BS, because Gorbachev knew that without ratification and ironing out what NATO expansion meant and how long and where etc... any sort of nudge nudge warm fuzzies agreements would mean nothing or at best would not take advantage of the USSR at that very point. And to be fair NATO did not enlarge for a long time. American forces were not hosted in former Eastern Europe for years after that.

So it's all moot. If Gorbachev was taken in by a warm feeling in his bosom, well that sucks on him. Strange that a career guy who worked his way up to Comrade 1st Secretary would be this gullible, naive and stupid. I would say he wasn't. He knew these "promises" were worthless or he'd insist on proper treaties, changing the status of NATO constitution to explicity exclude Hungary, Czechoslovakia etc from NATO in all perpetuity etc...

And to hold the US to nebulous, non detailed and not ratified agreements is stupid of Russia and their peanut gallery of shills.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top