Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 5

[rietrot]

You act like this is something unprecedented in the history of War. Control of bridges across major rivers has always been hugely strategic in war. Take World War 2 as an example. Bridges that allowed you access needed to be captured, and bridges that helped the enemy were blown up.

Specific example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludendorff_Bridge

The allies captured it intact as it gave them a way across the Rhine, the Germans tried many times to blow it up because it would hinder the allies' access to Germany, and they eventually succeeded. Nothing about these actions was considered untoward, it all made sense in the context of fighting a war.


So, you think that the Russians were really strict and disciplined about not attacking civilian areas during the war before their bridge was attacked, seriously, that is your argument?

You are using WW2 as an example very selectively to claim something as a military target

When the US nuked Japanese cities. Was that military targets?

 

[rietrot]

There's actually a significant spike in defence spending this year, guess you missed that information.

No. I didn't dispute that.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

They already are facing most of NATO. Just not the full airforce. I highly doubt Western countries have the apatite to see their airplanes be blown out of the sky.

Where are the Russians facing NATO?

 

[sefeddt]

The attack while achieving little has only united and made Ukrainians more determined to kick the Russian invaders out

From a human rights point of view, the attacks were inexcusable and will likely be ruled as war crimes. From the battlefield perspective, the Russian armed forces just dropped hundreds of millions of dollars to achieve basically nothing.

“The invaders can't stand against us on the battlefield and thus resort to this terror,” President Volodymyr Zelensky announced on the evening after the bombardment.

What’s behind Russia’s unusually big missile attack on Ukraine?

Russia lashed out on Oct. 10, striking many Ukrainian cities with 84 missiles and 24 exploding drones. The places they hit were all civilian — multiple power plants but also a children’s playground in the center of Kyiv. Most strikes

kyivindependent.com

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Meh. You were celebrating the killing of civilians and the bombing of an civilian bridge just a few days ago.

Ukrain has killed countless civilians when they shell cities in Dunbass.

Funny how people complain when Russia finally fights back. (Even though still very limited.)

Russia fights back? Who invaded Ukraine then?

 

[Cray]

You are using WW2 as an example very selectively to claim something as a military target

Why is it selective? It was the first major war where strategic bombing from the air was actually a factor, and it was after the Geneva convention was signed in 1929.

How about Vietnam?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanh_Hóa_Bridge

Human rights watch on civilian infrastructure...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/02/23...aw-occupation-armed-conflict-and-human-rights

Are parties to the conflict permitted to target infrastructure such as airports, roads, and bridges?

Civil airports, roads, and bridges are civilian objects that become military objectives subject to attack if they are being used for military purposes or military objectives are located on or within them. Even then, the rule of proportionality applies, requiring the parties to the conflict to weigh the short- and long-term harm on civilians against the expected military advantage of attacking them. They must consider all ways of minimizing the impact on civilians; and they should not undertake attacks if the expected civilian harm outweighs the anticipated military advantage

When the US nuked Japanese cities. Was that military targets?

Although there were legitimate military targets within those cities, it probably wouldn't pass today as little attempt was made to minimize civillian casualties. Off topic though, no one has used Nukes in this conflict.

 

[rietrot]

Why is it selective? It was the first major war where strategic bombing from the air was actually a factor, and it was after the Geneva convention was signed in 1929.

How about Vietnam?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanh_Hóa_Bridge

Human rights watch on civilian infrastructure...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/02/23...aw-occupation-armed-conflict-and-human-rights




Although there were legitimate military targets within those cities, it probably wouldn't pass today as little attempt was made to minimize civillian casualties. Off topic though, no one has used Nukes in this conflict.

What will pass today is what whoever wins decide was neccessary. Russia needs to be completely defeated if you think they need to be held accountable for their "war crimes". Highly unlikely.

And the same for Ukraine. Also highly unlikely that Russia conquer all of Ukraine and hold the current puppet to account, even less likely that the puppet masters are held to account.

 

[Cray]

What will pass today is what whoever wins decide was neccessary. Russia needs to be completely defeated if you think they need to be held accountable for their "war crimes". Highly unlikely.

And the same for Ukraine. Also highly unlikely that Russia conquer all of Ukraine and hold the current puppet to account, even less likely that the puppet masters are held to account.

I have very little faith in anyone holding Russia to account for their war crimes, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be condemned for what they are doing.

 

[rietrot]

I have very little faith in anyone holding Russia to account for their war crimes, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be condemned for what they are doing.

Condemn = virtue signal on the internet.

Sure, if that makes you happy.

 

[Cray]

Condemn = virtue signal on the internet.

The very same internet that you are on bitching about all sorts of things?

 

[rietrot]

The very same internet that you are on bitching about all sorts of things?

I don't bitch, I only have high minded intellectual debates.

 

[Impala]

I highly doubt Western countries have the apatite to see their airplanes be blown out of the sky.

Russia did not gain any air superiority against Ukraine. So if NATO airforces become involved, then I think Russia will have a hard time.

 

[Blu82]

You are using WW2 as an example very selectively to claim something as a military target

When the US nuked Japanese cities. Was that military targets?

The aiming points were the harbours and surrounding industrial facilities in those cities.

 

[LetsDance]

I said it at the beginning of part 1 of this saga - NATO was not meant to be a way of countries not having to bother having their own armies sufficient in itself. I read somewhere that the U.K has one military brigade or battalion that is combat ready. Other European countries the same thing. Except for the Ukraine which started arming for this current conflict with Russia a decade ago. I must say, its nice for the budget of those countries. Even Russia wanted to join NATO.

 

[Cray]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579524323953737728

 

[hexagon]

I'm trying to count those on their actual border...

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I'm not having this silly argument with you. There's no way you can justify the ISIS style car bomb.

I just pointed out that people only selectively care about civilians when it is convenient.

3 Civilians that were unavoidable collateral damage versus how many civilians that were intentionally targeted?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Other than the US aristocracy fabricating an entire story about how the Russians are to blame for the election of Trump.

Ever heard of Cambridge Analytica?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

2 maybe 3 civilians deaths are still civilian deaths. The terrorist nature of the attack is particularly disgusting.

Oh BS. It's legal collateral damage unlike the war crime of direct targeting of civilians by Russia.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Russia says exactly the same about everything they bombed just because you see some swings in the background doesn't make it so.

Neither of us know the planned projectory of any particular missile. Trying to claim Russia actually targeted a playground is silly

Civilian areas were targeted. No military targets were hit. Are you telling me Russian missiles are that inaccurate?