Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 5

[sefeddt]

Ukrainian chopper pilot flashes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580875763406241792

 

[The Trutherizer]

I agree. Life challenges a lot of things we thought were certain What you said reminds me of something Alfred North Whitehead said that the purpose of life is to let the ideas die and instead of us dying. I do agree there are so many things to learn in this world. Back on topic, I do think USSR tactics have evolved a lot since then and that the inclusion of political technology pioneered by vladislav surkov has been having a devasting effect on the world.

I've actually got Surkov on an actual list of "Awful people"

 

[ToxicBunny]

Ukrainian chopper pilot flashes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580875763406241792

Legends.. The lot of them.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Russia took Crimea in 2014?
Russia does not have the capabilities to install desalination plants? They had no plan to provide water?
Or did Russia always feel they could rely on a land bridge at some point, thus making the need for a desalination plant redundant?

so ... cutting off civilians from critical infrastructure is perfectly fine seeing as it is your enemy's problem to restore it?

game on then, Ukraine's entire civilian infrastructure is fair game

 

[Dave]

so ... cutting off civilians from critical infrastructure is perfectly fine seeing as it is your enemy's problem to restore it?

game on then, Ukraine's entire civilian infrastructure is fair game

Russia claim Crimea as Russia, no? So why should it be Ukraine's problem to supply water to Russia, being a foreign country that it is not friendly with?

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Russia claim Crimea as Russia, no? So why should it be Ukraine's problem to supply water to Russia, being a foreign country that it is not friendly with?

thank you for the confirmation that none of you give a flying fahk about civilians

if one side's civilians are hit: "ZORMG savage Russians attacking innocent civilians!"
if the other side's civilians are hit: "meh, they're Russians"

 

[Mirai]

So much here.

"My nazis are better than your nazis".

Your Nazi:

Our Nazi:

 

[Mirai]

or maybe this

I'm not so sure... it looks more like this...

 

[Mirai]

so ... cutting off civilians from critical infrastructure is perfectly fine seeing as it is your enemy's problem to restore it?

game on then, Ukraine's entire civilian infrastructure is fair game

They had drinking water.

Without water from the Dnieper River, Crimea’s arable land has shrunk, from 130,000 hectares in 2013 — already a fraction of Soviet-era levels — to 14,000 in 2017. Thirsty crops like rice have shriveled.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Yes the new authorities should take over. The original country is not obliged to support land taken over by hostiles and help provide water to the hostile army. No war crime. Actually all they did was dam up the river which was theirs to do with how they pleased.

Should they also provide emergency services in Russian occupied Crimea? Should Ukrainian ambulances and firemen also enter there to deal with heart attacks and fires?

 

[buka001]

so ... cutting off civilians from critical infrastructure is perfectly fine seeing as it is your enemy's problem to restore it?

game on then, Ukraine's entire civilian infrastructure is fair game

Did Russia sign a treaty or agreement with Ukraine to provide Crimea with water?

Under what law was Ukraine compelled to supply Russia with water?

Ukraine is a sovereign territory and they have full right to manage their resources as they see fit, not how Russia sees fit.

How is it after 8 years Russia was incapable of providing critical infrastructure? Did someone buy a boat instead?

Your Imperialism is in overdrive. Far more than Dick Cheney and George Bush on steroids. Time to chill.

 

[Mirai]

so ... cutting off civilians from critical infrastructure is perfectly fine seeing as it is your enemy's problem to restore it?

game on then, Ukraine's entire civilian infrastructure is fair game

Building a dam vs bombing civilians and their infrastructure after invading their country. Yes these are equal.

 

[buka001]

thank you for the confirmation that none of you give a flying fahk about civilians

if one side's civilians are hit: "ZORMG savage Russians attacking innocent civilians!"
if the other side's civilians are hit: "meh, they're Russians"

How many civilians had no water and died?

 

[MiW]

Don't know if it's a real Kremlin leak , or it was deliberately spread

Putin wants to offer Ukraine a pause to prepare for a new offensive

OLENA ROSCHINA – FRIDAY, 14 OCTOBER 2022, 15:21

www.pravda.com.ua

Moscow is again promoting the idea of negotiations with Kyiv, but Vladimir Putin is not going to give up on the continuation of the war, and hopes to use the desired "ceasefire" regime to prepare for a new offensive in February-March 2023.

Source: Meduza, the Latvia-based news agency, described as a "foreign agent" in Russia

Details: In the last few weeks, representatives of the Russian government have been increasingly talking about negotiations with Ukraine or Western countries. Meduza writes that Vladimir Putin is indeed thinking about resuming negotiations, despite Volodymyr Zelenskyy's refusal to negotiate with him after the annexation of 4 Ukrainian oblasts.

However, the news agency indicates, Putin wants Russia to retain control over the territories in Donbas, and he "does not want to discuss Crimea[n issue] at all". According to three Meduza’s sources close to the Kremlin, these positions have not changed.

Quote: "Nevertheless, according to Meduza's interlocutors, the Russian authorities have developed a new "tactical option". It does not involve the conclusion of a full-fledged peace treaty, but the implementation of a temporary ceasefire regime.

According to the Kremlin's plan, the Russian and Ukrainian military could agree on this without the involvement of the leaders of both states.

According to Meduza sources close to the Kremlin, probably for the sake of this agreement, the Russian authorities are ready to withdraw troops from at least part of the occupied territory of the Kherson Oblast".

Details: At the same time, one of Meduza's sources that was close to the Kremlin admitted: "Now it is very difficult to hold Kherson, and the withdrawal of troops from the Oblast can be done as a gesture of goodwill and a step towards Ukraine".

Currently, the Kremlin is trying to "influence Western leaders" and Turkish President Recep Erdoğan, so that they would "convince" Ukraine to get back to negotiations with Russia.

Meduza’s sources say that in these conversations with the leaders of other countries, Russian representatives give "a simple argument: it is necessary to avoid casualties among the civilian population".


This sounds hypocritical against the background of the recent massive rocket attacks on Ukrainian cities, which started after the explosion at Crimean Bridge and the successful counteroffensive launched by Ukrainian forces.

Details: Meduza’s sources emphasised that Vladimir Putin is not going to give up the continuation of the war – and hopes to use the possible ceasefire to prepare for a new offensive.

According to one of sources, during this time, the Russian army will manage to train mobilised Russians and at least somehow compensate for the losses in equipment. The press secretary of the president, Dmitry Peskov, did not answer Meduza's questions regarding this.


The Kremlin's plan foresaw, Meduza’s sources explained, that "a new full-scale offensive" could begin around February-March 2023.

Details: At the same time, Kyiv's position regarding negotiations with Moscow remains unchanged.

"We will be ready for negotiations with Russia, not with Putin, but with whoever will replace him," the interlocutor in the Office of the President of Ukraine repeated Volodymyr Zelenskyy and suggested to the Russians: "Topple your unreasonable Putin".

The source emphasised that Ukraine has long distrusted Russia's statements and "goodwill gestures". According to it, "there will be no ceasefire" until Ukrainian territories are liberated.

Mykhailo Podolyak, adviser to the Head of Office of President of Ukraine, said that the Russian scenario is "absolutely definitely not in favour of Ukraine" and that only a military defeat of the Russian Federation will allow a real end to the war.
Podolyak’s quote: "What does a cease-fire give to Ukraine under the Russian scenario? Fixation of a de facto new line of demarcation and hasty entrenchment of the Russians in the temporarily occupied territories? Can we seriously assume that we will agree to this? Especially against the background of a counteroffensive... A clear operational pause for the badly damaged detachments of the Russians, in order to train at least some of the mobilised and hastily send a new number of suicide bombers to the battlefield? Why do we need this?".

 

[Mirai]

At one point in my life, after having myself bought into some of the bs, I realised that the aim of a life is to live. I've actually used this simple rule of thumb to judiciously separate the good from the bad for a long time. Though it's not always immediately obvious to determine which philosophies and ideologies are best to allow for it. But the quest to do so does tend to highlight some of the crimes against it. And I came to realise that what the Soviets did feels like they stole time from everybody in the world.

The Soviets murdered millions of people. Don't forget that. Maybe for a guy living after USSR fell in the West it's all a matter of philosophical pondering but for some of us who lost people and who were disowned and persecuted it's not the same.

Russians sadly haven't learned that lesson.

 

[Dave]

thank you for the confirmation that none of you give a flying fahk about civilians

if one side's civilians are hit: "ZORMG savage Russians attacking innocent civilians!"
if the other side's civilians are hit: "meh, they're Russians"

Showing your stupidity again. You can't have it both ways, is Crimea Ukraine or is it Russia?

Should it be Canada's problem if Mexico has a drought? Should it be France's problem if Italy has a drought?

 

[The Trutherizer]

The Soviets murdered millions of people. Don't forget that. Maybe for a guy living after USSR fell in the West it's all a matter of philosophical pondering but for some of us who lost people and who were disowned and persecuted it's not the same.

Russians sadly haven't learned that lesson.

Absolutely. It's horrible. It's just compounded by the fact that they so negatively impacted the entire rest of the world as well.
And lay the foundations for the evolved methods now used by Putin.

People in the entire world should be able to live their own lives free from such manipulation.

 

[Dave]

So Noddy's bullshittery earlier about the Kherson offensive failing again is shown up as nonsense again, Russia making noises about being prepared to withdraw from Kherson altogher.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580886171739381762

 

[Mirai]

Source: Meduza, the Latvia-based news agency, described as a "foreign agent" in Russia

Can Latvia make people's blood pressure go up and lead to marital discord, though?

 

[Mirai]

Absolutely. It's horrible. It's just compounded by the fact that they so negatively impacted the entire rest of the world.
And lay the foundations for the evolved methods now used by Putin.

People in the entire world should be able to live their own lives free from such manipulation.

I'm sorry but I disagree. No the rest of the world did not have it nearly as hard as people directly affected by the Soviets, not nearly. Stolen youth, stolen chances, etc... fear of nuclear war... pale in comparison to actual involvement with Soviet Russia.

 

[The Trutherizer]

I'm sorry but I disagree. No the rest of the world did not have it nearly as hard as people directly affected by the Soviets, not nearly. Stolen youth, stolen chances, etc... fear of nuclear war... pale in comparison to actual involvement with Soviet Russia.

I'm not saying the suffering is equal. I'm saying the impact on the rest of the world adds to the atrocity.
I've tried to imagine the world today but for these things, and to my best estimation it would have been vastly better. For everybody.
Such daydreaming is of course pointless though. What's done is done. People can only try to do better.