Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 5

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buka001

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CommonSense said:
This.
I am actually also getting annoyed at those that respond to the trolls. They are part of the problem as they keep on feeding them. (and naturally the trolls respond back with more trolling). So there is no hope of changing their minds.. Hence I think those trolling the trolls can also be classified as trolls.

I so wish for a setting on the forum where if you Ignore someone, then you also automatically Ignore any replies to those people. Thus even if someone is not on my ignore list, I don't want to see any posts where they reply to someone who is on the list.
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I am guilty of this.

In a way I do feel that sometimes it is necessary to engage, to shine a light on their beliefs, to push them to inadvertently expose their true beliefs, as many of them hide behind a faux neutrality facade.

An example was how I had NarrowBand claim that a country joining NATO meant that NATO had annexed them, in the same way Russia had annexed Crimea etc. It showed how biased and warped his world view is. I feel had we ignored his statements, we would have missed that insight into how his bias drives his posts.

However, I take your point and agree. I will ignore the more belligerent trolls, with their overt attempts to sow discord and bedlam in these forums.

Thanks for giving me cause, to pause for some reflection.
 
Cosmik Debris

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rietrot said:
It will be Russian soil now.
And wrong about what? That the west and Ukraine threatened Russia and Russian speaking people in what used to be Ukraine. Even if 100% of Russians die that is still true, it is even more true the more they die. Don't know how Putin can be wrong considering the bigger picture. You could argue they should have sacrificed the people of the Dunbass and defend on Russia's current border, but it's the same problem.
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Who invaded who again?
 
Cosmik Debris

Cosmik Debris

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rietrot said:
The real world isn't call of duty were you just run around killing everyone.

Why did the US fail in the middle east? They didn't have local support. As easy as that. You cannot hold territory without local support.
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Failed in the Middle East? Where?
 
ForceFate

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buka001 said:
I am guilty of this.

In a way I do feel that sometimes it is necessary to engage, to shine a light on their beliefs, to push them to inadvertently expose their true beliefs, as many of them hide behind a faux neutrality facade.

An example was how I had NarrowBand claim that a country joining NATO meant that NATO had annexed them, in the same way Russia had annexed Crimea etc. It showed how biased and warped his world view is. I feel had we ignored his statements, we would have missed that insight into how his bias drives his posts.

However, I take your point and agree. I will ignore the more belligerent trolls, with their overt attempts to sow discord and bedlam in these forums.

Thanks for giving me cause, to pause for some reflection.
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NB goes out of his way to consciously ignore or dismiss conspicuous evidence, obfuscate and propagate half truths and outright lies. It shows me he knows the truth or there's more than meets the eye.
 
Cosmik Debris

Cosmik Debris

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DreamKing said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574800653724966915
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Nope. My money is on Spetsnaz divers that used a Priz submarine or a Priz with hydraulic manipulators carried by a mother Russian submarine and laid mines on the pipeline.

The water there is only 50 metres deep, which would need a small submarine like the Priz as a large nuclear submarine will have difficulty operating in shallow water and the Priz doesn't have the range to sail on it's own from Russia.

Priz:

2074646-3x2-940x627.jpg
 
Cosmik Debris

Cosmik Debris

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rietrot said:
I would not put doing something so stupid past the CIA or someone in the US, but it really does just help Russia.

Russia struggled between deciding how much money they still wanted to make selling gas to Europe vs shutting down the gas.

That's now decided by a forced shutdown
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How do you operate a huge nuclear sub in shallow water? They're open water vessels. The Baltic around Bornholm is shallow.
 
konfab

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buka001 said:
All of those came into effect after the Nazis had won militarily.

Many of them came into effect to prevent further bloodshed, for example, the Dutch. After the bombing of Rotterdam, the Dutch decided there was no point in resistance If they continued to fight, more cities would have been levelled and the Nazis would still have won.

The French, they were war-shy after WW1. They had no stomach for it and after they were outflanked in the Ardennes, they had no feasible strategy to hold the Germans back. All it would have led to was further losses and destruction of French cities and no chance of victory.
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But that is what Riettie was saying.

They didn't have local support. As easy as that. You cannot hold territory without local support.
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Now maybe there is an exception to that rule, as if you kill every living thing when you march through an area, there isn't going to be resistance.
 
Cosmik Debris

Cosmik Debris

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hexagon said:
See, kids, it was "in no-one's interest"... No-one had a reason to do this. It was just a random act of sabotage that required specialist underwater operations and explosives. Your everyday thugs.y.
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Correct. And Russia has those capabilities in the Baltic using a mother submarine for the small Priz that can operate in the shallow water around Bornholm.
 
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