Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 7

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hexagon

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Some interesting insights re the straightjacket of choices facing Zelensky:
Bandera's 'Insurgency-in-Waiting'
After keeping tabs on this “quasi-fascist” movement for a few years (although it mostly went dark after Russia invaded), I feel comfortable speculating that the ROK was partially responsible for making Zelensky feel that negotiating peace with Russia would be too dangerous for him. I also suspect that once Putin declared war, Zelensky as an actor felt his only choice was to become an action hero, not just to rally international support for his country, but to become so popular in Ukraine and the West to rule out a coup d’etat.

However, I don’t think Zelensky feels anywhere close to enough Western (particularly US and UK) support to negotiate with Russia, which would make the mantra adopted by Kyiv and Washington, “Nothing About Ukraine Without Ukraine,” an epic Catch 22 if Zelensky is too scared of fascists in the military to take the initiative. It might be fit for a Dr. Strangelove sequel unthinkable to Stanley Kubrick because “the Ukraine” was hardly a blip on Washington’s radar during most of the original Cold War. But perhaps the new framework is not so different after all. In his book, Blowback: America’s Recruitment of Nazis and its Destructive Impact on Our Domestic and Foreign Policy, Christopher Simpson wrote this about US support for the remnants of the OUN-B’s Ukrainian Insurgent Army at the dawn of the Cold War
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Five years later, an OUN-B organizer of the Capitulation Resistance Movement told The Daily Beast, reacting to Zelensky’s landslide election victory, “We are going to raise a new Maidan revolution if he makes a single step away from our course.”
Click to expand...
 
ForceFate

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hexagon said:
Some interesting insights re the straightjacket of choices facing Zelensky:
Bandera's 'Insurgency-in-Waiting'
Click to expand...
More garbage. Truth is, Putin grossly miscalculated his position in Ukraine and now he's doing everything he can to justify the war. He's trying to convince the world he acted in the best interests of the world. He'll go down in history as one of the worst people to lead Russia.
 
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Kaapie

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This is now a war of attrition, funded by Nato money, Ukraine lives and infrastructure, against a Soviet army that may or may not be able to keep up with the expenditure of usual armaments. (I wouldn't believe anything the usual mainstream media propagates as facts re Russian army or armory status).

What we do know is that they have among the largest stockpiles of nukes. Old and young ( hypersonic ).

You have to be a special kind of stupid thinking the nation that broke the Nazi back in WW2 is going to capitulate to Ukraine/ Nato, before saying ''**** it, lets all go to hell together''

I blame 3 parties for this so called 'military operation'. Nato, Zelensky, Putin. In that order.

my peanut gallery contribution
 
tetrasect

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Kaapie said:
This is now a war of attrition, funded by Nato money, Ukraine lives and infrastructure, against a Soviet army that may or may not be able to keep up with the expenditure of usual armaments. (I wouldn't believe anything the usual mainstream media propagates as facts re Russian army or armory status).

What we do know is that they have among the largest stockpiles of nukes. Old and young ( hypersonic ).

You have to be a special kind of stupid thinking the nation that broke the Nazi back in WW2 is going to capitulate to Ukraine/ Nato, before saying ''**** it, lets all go to hell together''

I blame 3 parties for this so called 'military operation'. Nato, Zelensky, Putin. In that order.

my peanut gallery contribution
Click to expand...
You're a peanut if you think Russian soldiers returning to Russia instead of getting away with stealing Ukrainian land is "capitulating to Ukraine" and worth launching nukes over.

Russia illegally invaded a sovereign country and will soon fck off back home with their tail between their legs, a court summons in one hand and a massive bill of reparations in the other.
 
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Kaapie

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Maybe you are right. Probably. I don't know.
my take. not here to change anybody's mind.
 
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zippy

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Kaapie said:
This is now a war of attrition, funded by Nato money, Ukraine lives and infrastructure, against a Soviet army that may or may not be able to keep up with the expenditure of usual armaments. (I wouldn't believe anything the usual mainstream media propagates as facts re Russian army or armory status).

What we do know is that they have among the largest stockpiles of nukes. Old and young ( hypersonic ).

You have to be a special kind of stupid thinking the nation that broke the Nazi back in WW2 is going to capitulate to Ukraine/ Nato, before saying ''**** it, lets all go to hell together''

I blame 3 parties for this so called 'military operation'. Nato, Zelensky, Putin. In that order.

my peanut gallery contribution
Click to expand...

You have to be a special kind of stupid to think the nation that broke the back of the Nazi’s is the same nation as Russia. The nation that broke the back of the Nazis was the Soviet Union which consisted of Russia, Ukraine(which bore the brunt of the fight against the Nazis), Lithuania, Belarus, Georgia, Chechnya, and more.. And let’s forget the defeat of the luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain which resulted in the Nazi’s having fight in 2 fronts, making it easier for the Soviets. And also the vast supplies from the western allies which helped the Soviets. Yes, western aid. Like the western aid the Russians are NOT now getting but the Ukrainians are.

Your attempts to hide your admiration for a dictator(“I blame ….blah, blah) is pathetic. Given away by “..NATO, Zelensky, Putin. In that order”

Mybb Putin apologists seem not to be looking where they are going as they are trying backpeddle, or sidestep, or is it stumble forward with hands over eyes, not realising how stupid they now sound



All very entertaining reading though
 
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OhYeah84

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Kaapie said:
This is now a war of attrition, funded by Nato money, Ukraine lives and infrastructure, against a Soviet army that may or may not be able to keep up with the expenditure of usual armaments. (I wouldn't believe anything the usual mainstream media propagates as facts re Russian army or armory status).

What we do know is that they have among the largest stockpiles of nukes. Old and young ( hypersonic ).

You have to be a special kind of stupid thinking the nation that broke the Nazi back in WW2 is going to capitulate to Ukraine/ Nato, before saying ''**** it, lets all go to hell together''

I blame 3 parties for this so called 'military operation'. Nato, Zelensky, Putin. In that order.

my peanut gallery contribution
Click to expand...
You're lucky if that's regarded as a peanut gallery contribution.

Putin started it all and that's where it ends. Must NATO sit back and watch as the country they were basically formed to defend against takes out a sovereign nation? And then perhaps moves onto the next? Until Russia is suddenly on NATO members' doorsteps?
Doubtful. Why blame Zelensky? For calling his country together to defend its borders?
 
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OhYeah84

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buka001

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Kaapie said:
This is now a war of attrition, funded by Nato money, Ukraine lives and infrastructure, against a Soviet army that may or may not be able to keep up with the expenditure of usual armaments. (I wouldn't believe anything the usual mainstream media propagates as facts re Russian army or armory status).

What we do know is that they have among the largest stockpiles of nukes. Old and young ( hypersonic ).

You have to be a special kind of stupid thinking the nation that broke the Nazi back in WW2 is going to capitulate to Ukraine/ Nato, before saying ''**** it, lets all go to hell together''

I blame 3 parties for this so called 'military operation'. Nato, Zelensky, Putin. In that order.

my peanut gallery contribution
Click to expand...
NATO is primarily at fault? Yet somehow not a single NATO soldier has stepped into Russia and killed any Russians?

Russia is inside Ukraine, annexing Ukrainian territory to align with Putin's very vocal aims of making Ukraine become Russia and that is somehow low on your list of culpability?

Eish.

If Putin had an issue with NATO why hasn't he done anything to address NATO? He attacked a non-NATO country.
 
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Kaapie

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OhYeah84 said:
You're lucky if that's regarded as a peanut gallery contribution.

Putin started it all and that's where it ends. Must NATO sit back and watch as the country they were basically formed to defend against takes out a sovereign nation? And then perhaps moves onto the next? Until Russia is suddenly on NATO members' doorsteps?
Doubtful. Why blame Zelensky? For calling his country together to defend its borders?
Click to expand...
OhYeah84 said:
Do you not think this is done by all government agencies? As well as ways and means in which to contain foreign powers, or even find common ground? They run multiple scenarios. You're so short-sighted.
Not sure if you're flat-out simple minded, or naive! Or both, or more. Your admiration for your Russkie comrades shines forth.
Click to expand...

This is from 2015. If really interested in context, and not just emo knee jerk responses, you could also check out Noam Chomsky, Jeffrey Sachs. etc.

 
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buchanan8

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zippy said:
You have to be a special kind of stupid to think the nation that broke the back of the Nazi’s is the same nation as Russia. The nation that broke the back of the Nazis was the Soviet Union which consisted of Russia, Ukraine(which bore the brunt of the fight against the Nazis), Lithuania, Belarus, Georgia, Chechnya, and more.. And let’s forget the defeat of the luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain which resulted in the Nazi’s having fight in 2 fronts, making it easier for the Soviets. And also the vast supplies from the western allies which helped the Soviets. Yes, western aid. Like the western aid the Russians are NOT now getting but the Ukrainians are.

Your attempts to hide your admiration for a dictator(“I blame ….blah, blah) is pathetic. Given away by “..NATO, Zelensky, Putin. In that order”

Mybb Putin apologists seem not to be looking where they are going as they are trying backpeddle, or sidestep, or is it stumble forward with hands over eyes, not realising how stupid they now sound



All very entertaining reading though
Click to expand...

@Kaapie was correct in his post.

The nation that broke the Nazi's back was the Soviet Union, whose army would have consisted mostly of Russian soldiers, plus from the other Soviet Republics. And the most important battles of the war were on Russian territory. Eg. The Battle of Moscow, the Battle of Stalingrad and The Battle of Kursk. Most reputable historians consider Stalingrad to be the turning point of the Second World War.

The Germans pretty much rolled over the Ukrainian Soviet Republic's territory in the inital invasion of Operation Barbarossa. It is a well known fact that many Ukrainians (Galicians and Banderarites) actually sided with the Nazis against the Soviet Union. (Hence the Nazi symbolism and Bandera worship that continues in modern day Ukraine to this day).

That's not to say there weren't any Ukrainians who fought valiantly against the Germans - I'm sure there must have been. But it's ludicrous to suggest that Ukraine and Ukrainians bore the brunt of fighting the Nazis.
 
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Cray

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Kaapie said:
This is now a war of attrition, funded by Nato money, Ukraine lives and infrastructure, against a Soviet army that may or may not be able to keep up with the expenditure of usual armaments. (I wouldn't believe anything the usual mainstream media propagates as facts re Russian army or armory status).

What we do know is that they have among the largest stockpiles of nukes. Old and young ( hypersonic ).

You have to be a special kind of stupid thinking the nation that broke the Nazi back in WW2 is going to capitulate to Ukraine/ Nato, before saying ''**** it, lets all go to hell together''

I blame 3 parties for this so called 'military operation'. Nato, Zelensky, Putin. In that order.
Click to expand...
The first two of which didn't actually invade another country...:X3:
 
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