Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 7

[Blu82]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602980772364926976

 

[Major Boredom]

Just keep in mind the CIC ( president or whatever you want to call him ) is not a civilian


4th Geneva -> Revolves arround Civilians
Article 26 -> Discrimination. Doesnt apply to the current topic
Article 6 -> Right of life , but this is not covering a war scenario with a member of the military service
Article 3 -> Same comment as above
Article 2 -> Same comment as above

Havent seen anything yet that prohibits assasinations in the context being discussed

Go read those 2 articles I posted. Makes for interesting reading.

In actual fact the the laws that the usa and israel ( in this example ) have in place talk to the recommendations made

On a side note with a chuckle.
I recall some of the other Russian lovers arguing the above did not apply to civilians being targeted in the current war...

 

[Major Boredom]

'There are maniacs who enjoy killing,' Russian defector says of his former unit accused of war crimes in Bucha | CNN

Nikita Chibrin says he still remembers his fellow Russian soldiers running away after allegedly raping two Ukrainian women during their deployment northwest of Kyiv in March.

edition.cnn.com

It's what happens when you empty out prisons

 

[viper13]

Just keep in mind the CIC ( president or whatever you want to call him ) is not a civilian


4th Geneva -> Revolves arround Civilians
Article 26 -> Discrimination. Doesnt apply to the current topic
Article 6 -> Right of life , but this is not covering a war scenario with a member of the military service
Article 3 -> Same comment as above
Article 2 -> Same comment as above

Havent seen anything yet that prohibits assasinations in the context being discussed

Go read those 2 articles I posted. Makes for interesting reading.

In actual fact the the laws that the usa and israel ( in this example ) have in place talk to the recommendations made

I've read the Mecer report before. Read the Yale conclusion I posted earlier as well. In it is stated that assassination is clearly against international law hence the legal interpretation provided. You will not find explicit mention or definition of the term assassination other than in the US and Israel laws but this does not mean it's not illegal. It simply means interpretation is needed. There are modules dedicated to legal interpretation when you study law so that the gaps are covered and the intention behind statutes may be discovered.

 

[viper13]

I think you are overestimating badly. Certainly some african countries will buy product.
But I think Russia will be down in the bottom of the list with those same african countries in 20 years time.

I still maintain Russia may have bigger problems than the west. She has shown how weak she actually is.

Yes, African countries will buy some but there are other developing countries that will buy that are not African. There is also the resale of Russian gas and oil which is already posing a bit of a challenge. The fact that Russia has been shown up as not being as powerful as they were expected to be is likely to be the reason why the added focus on weapons development will take place. I suspect the Ruskies are also going to revamp their military structures and training to address the many issues that have been exploited in this conflict. I also suspect that they will push for a national basic service that will be compulsory much like Israel does.

 

[viper13]

You seem to have a rather inflated idea of their capabilities. If anything, their supposedly superior stealth fighter being absent from the theater of war, similarly their super tank, not to even go into their losses over the last year of what was supposed to be at the very worst case scenario a blitzkrieg win done within a month (if not a couple of days / weeks), has shown them to be much less than the image they project.

The SU-57 was used from long range early in the conflict and is only now entering official service from next year. The elite Russian air units have just been assigned formal training and hand over.

Regarding tanks, you referring to the T-90 or the T-14?

 

[viper13]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600949478541828096

Tbh, when our petrol price was going up and up and up, I was considering something like this.

 

[sefeddt]

Yes, African countries will buy some but there are other developing countries that will buy that are not African. There is also the resale of Russian gas and oil which is already posing a bit of a challenge. The fact that Russia has been shown up as not being as powerful as they were expected to be is likely to be the reason why the added focus on weapons development will take place. I suspect the Ruskies are also going to revamp their military structures and training to address the many issues that have been exploited in this conflict. I also suspect that they will push for a national basic service that will be compulsory much like Israel does.

Which is why more countries joining NATO. Prevent the empire building Soviet era seeking Russia from threatening countries in Europe and beyond.

 

[sefeddt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603004511916027905

 

[AlmightyBender]

Yup, renewables have gotten a MAJOR boost thanks to the gas problem in Europe. But there are a lot of developing countries that are going to pick up the slack and Russia will still keep pumping oil and gas and still keep making profits like they have before. The difference is Russia will try and get that whole national pride thing going again that they had in the 70's and 80's. That carried them through a lot of much tougher times.

The Russian people will adjust and get used to not having McDonalds or Prada. These will be replaced with their own versions. China will eye Russia as a nice juicy new market as well and sanctions won't detract from that either.

We do not want to be sitting here in 20 years time facing a Russian army that are all autonomous and can be produced in the 1000's overnight. Or to face weapons that have no moving parts but release unbelievable amounts of energy that virtually vaporizes whatever it is aimed at. Or a weapon that has an effectiveness window of 24 hours but can be deployed to a hostile area and render all combatants (organic material) incapacitated allowing for easy capture/disposal (not talking chemical or biological weapons either). And these are just some of the ideas in the west so not even thinking about the nightmares that the Russians can come up with over a bottle of Count Pushkin.

Brother you are talking absolute rubbish now. Just fantasy, sci-fi rubbish.

Isolation will destroy them. No country can prosper isolated to even the smallest fraction that they could prosper with trade partners.

You honestly think Russia is gonna invent computer hardware from scratch to just serve their local market? Lol. Laughable!

You clearly can't fathom the complexity of modern technology and the decades and decades of expertise and research and collaboration and infrastructure that was required for us to get where we are now.

 

[viper13]

Which is why more countries joining NATO. Prevent the empire building Soviet era seeking Russia from threatening countries in Europe and beyond.

One thing that has become abundantly clear is that ,except to Russia's direct neighbors, they are no threat to anybody. Their logistical planning is non-existent. The great threat to Europe is also just a lot of hogwash. No possible way they could threaten Europe with their current armed forces. I'm not entirely convinced that taking the fight beyond Ukraine was ever really part of the plan, no matter what their TV comrades claim, none of which would last 2 seconds in a trench.

I have no trust for NATO either, they are too controlled by the US, so I would not really like to see them grow much larger either.

 

[viper13]

Brother you are talking absolute rubbish now. Just fantasy, sci-fi rubbish.

Isolation will destroy them. No country can prosper isolated to even the smallest fraction that they could prosper with trade partners.

You honestly think Russia is gonna invent computer hardware from scratch to just serve their local market? Lol. Laughable!

You clearly can't fathom the complexity of modern technology and the decades and decades of expertise and research and collaboration and infrastructure that was required for us to get where we are now.

Why on earth would you think they would be isolated? Because the US and their allies said that everybody must have sanctions against Russia. There are many countries that do not have sanctions against Russia and many of them also produce modern circuits/chips. Russia will still have trade partners, just not western ones.

During the cold war years the Russians were the first ones to space. They basically created space travel while in isolation. People get very creative when they are facing big challenges. The Ruskies are very good at finding ways around things like sanctions. Either through normal channels or via not-so-normal channels.

 

[Mirai]

The assassination of a head of state is against international law so they would need to wait till the "cancer" does their job for them. If there was a deliberate attempt to take out Putin it would likely invoke a serious response as well and the US knows this. I doubt even Putin is crazy enough to strike a NATO city but also knows that NATO will not escalate the likelihood of a NATO/Russia conflict either which is why he may use a few smaller tactical nukes on military only targets. If he hits civilians with a nuke it's a game changer. That said, he does have other large ordinances available to himself as well which would be just as devastating but not nuclear but that would mean putting some bombers at risk.

That's what the Russians are saying themselves. As a Westerner maybe you know better, maybe you don't.

 

[Mirai]

I don't disagree in the slightest, but it's not the retaliation by Russia that would keep the West awake at night, but the descent into WW3 which that event would precipitate.

The thing that a Western town for St Petersburg would prevent a WW3. This is only a scenario if Putin hits a NATO country. If Putin hits Ukraine then the option is to use conventional strikes on all his forces in Crimea, Ukraine, Belarus, Black Sea and Kaliningrad.

The other option is also a measure to avoid WW3. Remember once they hit a NATO state, WW3 is possible.

 

[Mirai]

Why on earth would you think they would be isolated? Because the US and their allies said that everybody must have sanctions against Russia. There are many countries that do not have sanctions against Russia and many of them also produce modern circuits/chips. Russia will still have trade partners, just not western ones.

Which countries produce chips and circuits? Even Chinese ones are way behind ARM, Intel, etc.

During the cold war years the Russians were the first ones to space. They basically created space travel while in isolation. People get very creative when they are facing big challenges. The Ruskies are very good at finding ways around things like sanctions. Either through normal channels or via not-so-normal channels.

First to space and first to lose the space race.

 

[viper13]

Which countries produce chips and circuits? Even Chinese ones are way behind ARM, Intel, etc.



First to space and first to lose the space race.

The Chinese ones are not that far behind and with the money being thrown at it they should be fully caught up in 2 - 3 years.

The Russians didn't really shoot for the moon. They wanted to be the first in space, that's it. The whole moon thing was a PR stunt because it held no real value for any party at the time. The only value a lunar landing held in the cold war was "look what we can do". But now they want to mine the bloomin' thing.

There are a few companies now that are looking at starting up chip plants due to the fact that the US would be able to control foreign nations and what chips they can and can't buy.

 

[Mirai]

I've read the Mecer report before. Read the Yale conclusion I posted earlier as well. In it is stated that assassination is clearly against international law hence the legal interpretation provided. You will not find explicit mention or definition of the term assassination other than in the US and Israel laws but this does not mean it's not illegal. It simply means interpretation is needed. There are modules dedicated to legal interpretation when you study law so that the gaps are covered and the intention behind statutes may be discovered.

Nobody is speaking about assassination. What some Russians themselves are saying is that they think US will strike the city where the Russian leadership is with a nuke if Russia uses a nuke on a Western town. And that has been passed on to the Russian leadership so the Russian leadership understands this. The other thing they said in the past was that St Petersburg would be vaporised if a NATO city was hit with a nuclear strike. This is what the Russians themselves say and it's useful to know because this is how Russians think, dissident or not.

You do know that in the case of al all out nuclear war Moscow and the Kremlin will be 1st targets as would Washington DC? Decapitation strikes are common in all modern means of warfare. That's what the Russians try to do when they went for Kyiv and Hostomel. You didn't know that multiple teams were sent to kill Zelensky?

Why are you talking about assassination? West isn't going to assassinate Putin or anyone else.

Secondly you're giving some guy's opinion about it. It's not clear cut that a crime. Killing anybody is a crime as you know but it happens all the time. If Russia attacks NATO, NATO has at its disposal any means it deems necessary because a line has been crossed, otherwise the West should just surrender if we consider your bizarre explanations here.

 

[Mirai]

The Chinese ones are not that far behind and with the money being thrown at it they should be fully caught up in 2 - 3 years.

Yes because they've been stealing tech from the West but even so they are far behind. Tech leaps are incremental, it's not as if the West will do nothing while the Chinese catch up. And the Chinese have refused to export their cpus to Russia. So you're already wrong there.

The Russians didn't really shoot for the moon. They wanted to be the first in space, that's it. The whole moon thing was a PR stunt because it held no real value for any party at the time. The only value a lunar landing held in the cold war was "look what we can do". But now they want to mine the bloomin' thing.

That's a convenient excuse. Remember the Russians did not develop much, it was mostly stolen. The nuke was stolen from the Americans as was much of the other tech. USSR had no industry before Americans invested there in the 20s/30s. After WW2 RUssians copied what they could and stole what they could. But you can only get so far. Their tech is way, way behind. They make good solid things like conventional engines but electronics is terribly behind.

The Russians shat themselves when Reagan spoke about Star Wars. You were not even alive then, I was.

There are a few companies now that are looking at starting up chip plants due to the fact that the US would be able to control foreign nations and what chips they can and can't buy.

Wishful thinking. Please I know Russian tech. I had a Russian TV at home in fact I still have 2-3 of them lying around back at home. It was a POS. Russian equipment would break down after a few uses and needed constant repair. They were good for tinkering.

 

[Mirai]

One thing that has become abundantly clear is that ,except to Russia's direct neighbors, they are no threat to anybody.

No threat to Ukraine?

Please stop posting this Russian propaganda kuk.

Their logistical planning is non-existent.

You don't need too much logistic planning to kill civilian men, women and children.

The great threat to Europe is also just a lot of hogwash.

Your comment is a load of hogwash. See how easy it is to refute nonsense.

No possible way they could threaten Europe with their current armed forces

How do you know?

. I'm not entirely convinced that taking the fight beyond Ukraine was ever really part of the plan, no matter what their TV comrades claim, none of which would last 2 seconds in a trench.

Lavrov told the Americans to get out of former Warsaw Pact countries. So you're wrong there. Many experts, people like Bartosiak, think that if Ukraine folded, Russians AND Ukrainians would be preparing to take on Warsaw and the Baltics and then the the whole West would have to become involved.

I have no trust for NATO either, they are too controlled by the US, so I would not really like to see them grow much larger either.

I have trust for NATO. Who are you and why should we care what you wish? Do you live in Europe? I don't think so. So why should your liking or disliking something based on ignorance or pro-Russian stance matter? It's nice you think NATO is too big, but you're neither paying for it nor are a member of it. And who gives you the right to decide for others if they should join it or not?

I suspect you're jealous that a well oiled like alliance such as NATO exists.

 

[MiW]

Children’s torture chambers found in liberated territories

During the occupation of Kharkiv and Kherson Oblasts, the Russian military set up torture chambers for children who, in their opinion, offered resistance.Source: Dmytro Lubinets, Ukrainian Parliament Commissioner for Human Rights, during a briefing at Ukraine-Ukrinform media centre on 14 December

www.pravda.com.ua

During the occupation of Kharkiv and Kherson Oblasts, the Russian military set up torture chambers for children who, in their opinion, offered resistance.

Source: Dmytro Lubinets, Ukrainian Parliament Commissioner for Human Rights, during a briefing at Ukraine-Ukrinform media centre on 14 December

Quote: "Yes, it's true [there are torture chambers for children – ed.]. We recorded the torture of children for the first time. I thought that it is not possible to bottom out again after Bucha and Irpin. I personally saw two torture chambers located opposite each other in Balaklia [Kharkiv Oblast]. One guy stayed there for 90 days. He said that he had been tortured: they cut him with a knife, heated metal and burned part of his body, several times he was taken out to be shot and they shot over his head. He heard the screams of women and men being tortured for 24/7. I thought that was the rock bottom.

No. We saw the rock bottom in Kherson. In one of the torture chambers, we discovered a separate cell where children were kept. According to the people who were there, they knew that there were Ukrainian children next to them. The occupiers themselves called it a "children's cell". It's the same damp room, it differed only in that they threw [on the floor] very thin carpets [mats – ed.] and said that these were for children."

Details: Lubinets states that the occupiers gave the children water every other day, gave them almost no food, and also used psychological pressure, telling them that their parents had abandoned them and that they would not come back to them.

One 14-year-old boy was captured just because he took a picture of broken Russian equipment. He was detained and held in such a chamber being tortured.

"These are children who, according to the occupiers, offered resistance," added Lubinets.