Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part 8

[rambo919]

Russians are doing some of those things and these are wrong things to do. If you claim Russia is Christian she should not sow discord in other countries. She should act out of genuine charity. And not out of cynical self self interest at the expense of others, eg social strife in America. You know who it is who divides...the word devil originates from "to divide", Greek diabolos.

Except I did not.....

 

[Mirai]

You make the same mistake all propagandists make, you assume everything is emotionally tied so you tie everything to emotion. This is like assuming there is a moral quandry involved in a rock smashing an ant.... it's simply something that happens.

This is not an emotional argument. Murder of innocents is wrong. This is not an emotional judgement because murder of innocents feels unpleasant or evokes in normal people unpleasant feelings. You are mistaken about what you consider emotion and not. And I can lay the charge at you,pro-Russia Westerners, as Feser's article and quotes claim, are driven by passion.

But given you confuse the what with the why and the how at the same time this distinction is lost on you.

In the Christian worldview, at least the orthodox (small o if it has to be said) there are moral absolutes. And when you go against them directly you are doing immoral things. Bad things can still happen indirectly, that's why a defender has a right to fight back, and if he kills the aggressor it's not murder.

Given that you jingoistically interpret a lack of support for Ukraine as de facto support for Russia in your false dichotomy.... you won't see how this is a false statement.

You justify Russia's aggressive actions. Russia is the aggressor and the war is fought in Ukraine and not in Russia. Your attempts at explaining Russian motives are hollow as you claim some sort of emotional moral struggle in Russia yet you don't know if the Orthodox really support wars of aggression and murder or not, of if it's just a cabal of KGB activists in their church who say things. Also what effect does it have. Because for me this is for show to have Orthodox and right wingers abroad start to think twice about this war because the Russians are messing with peoples' minds locally and abroad.

And yet it is the Calvanist way to scold into submission and hate your enemy... because he is your enemy after all he was not predestined to be your friend.

This is opposed to correcting the sinner to get the sinner to not sin anymore and find salvation. This is not Calvinist. So you grep even this rather poorly, so why do you post here?

 

[Mirai]

Rambo you can't give moral equivocation to both parties. One party is at home, and is being savagely attacked, the other party has send forces abroad and is committing the violence and destruction abroad.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

the fact that it happens to be true in large part does in no way mean that is why Russia is doing it.

So, according to you the majority Christian West is Satanic?

Here is your problem.... just because Russia happens to be doing some of this.... does not mean in itself it is either right or wrong.

So Russia gets to do as they please then? No moral judgements apply?

 

[Mirai]

So, according to you the majority Christian West is Satanic?


So Russia gets to do as they please then? No moral judgements apply?

West is satanic but Russia is not Christian. Just watch for the, no the west is not satanic.

 

[rambo919]

This is not an emotional argument. Murder of innocents is wrong. This is not an emotional judgement because murder of innocents feels unpleasant or evokes in normal people unpleasant feelings. You are mistaken about what you consider emotion and not. And I can lay the charge at you,pro-Russia Westerners, as Feser's article and quotes claim, are driven by passion.

That is an emotional not logical argument.

In the Christian worldview, at least the orthodox (small o if it has to be said) there are moral absolutes. And when you go against them directly you are doing immoral things. Bad things can still happen indirectly, that's why a defender has a right to fight back, and if he kills the aggressor it's not murder.

And yet when I say this I am accused of taking Russia's side.

You justify Russia's aggressive actions. Russia is the aggressor and the war is fought in Ukraine and not in Russia.

Some of them yes others no. The place of the battleground itself in no way dictates whether a war is aggressive or defensive.

Your attempts at explaining Russian motives are hollow as you claim some sort of emotional moral struggle in Russia yet you don't know if the Orthodox really support wars of aggression and murder or not, of if it's just a cabal of KGB activists in their church who say things. Also what effect does it have. Because for me this is for show to have Orthodox and right wingers abroad start to think twice about this war because the Russians are messing with peoples' minds locally and abroad.

So basically you are promoting a conspiracy theory.

This is opposed to correcting the sinner to get the sinner to not sin anymore and find salvation. This is not Calvinist. So you grep even this rather poorly, so why do you post here?

This is simple hardcore Calvanistic predestination.

 

[Mirai]

That is an emotional not logical argument.

How is this emotional? Do you understand the English language?

People have a right to life. Nobody can take that away except in defense of one's or one's family/community right to life. But even there that should happen in defense, if the one's whose life is taken away is the aggressor. Basically. This is not emotional.

For an argument to be emotional it would be something like this: killing puppies makes me feel sad, therefore killing puppies is bad. Killing puppies makes me feel happy, therefore killing puppies is good.

And yet when I say this I am accused of taking Russia's side.

Because Russia started this war of aggression. It's not a genuine war of defense. I posted a link already.

Russians moved soldiers and arms into Ukraine and started firing on Ukrainians and they continue to this day. The Ukrainians are INNOCENT. They did not plan to attack Russia nor were attacking Russia. There is no justification for this war.

In this world we believe that people can govern themselves. In Ukraine Ukraine is the legitimate authority. If Russians cross the border and open fire they are aggressors. Had the Russians crossed the border to engage a group of soldiers who were about to launch an attack on them, that would not be a war of aggression. Russia attacked people who had no intention, or plans or means to attack them. Russia set out its goals early on:

RIA NOVOSTI has clarified Russia’s plans vis-à-vis Ukraine and the rest of the free world in a program like article: What Russia should do with Ukraine?

Back in April last year, we wrote about the inevitability of the denazification of Ukraine. We do not need Nazi (read Ukrainian), Bandera type of Ukraine (read Ukrainian), as the enemy of Russia and the West’s tool for the destruction of Russia. Today, the issue of denazification has moved into...

ccl.org.ua

Some of them yes others no. The place of the battleground itself in no way dictates whether a war is aggressive or defensive.

Russia invaded Ukraine and is killing Ukrainians and is annexing territory. This is a pure war of aggression.

So basically you are promoting a conspiracy theory.

So basically you are not understanding what you're reading.

This is simple hardcore Calvanistic predestination.

Calvinist: You are damned regardless of what one says or does. We can't help you. You can't help yourself.
orthodox Christian view: You can save yourself from damnation by repentance but then someone may need to show you the correct way.

Look this is not the PD forum. You're really not wishing to understand basic language here. I don't know how you respond with things you respond with.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

That is an emotional not logical argument.

So murder is OK if it's not emotional?

The place of the battleground itself in no way dictates whether a war is aggressive or defensive.

So Russia invading Ukraine doesn't mean Russia is the aggressor and Ukraine is the defender then?

This is simple hardcore Calvanistic predestination.

Well, if your god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, predestination is the only possibility as your god would have mapped out your life long before you were born.

 

[rambo919]

Look this is not the PD forum. You're really not wishing to understand basic language here. I don't know how you respond with things you respond with.

Yeah...... keep going with this strategy and think you can convince anyone you are being emotionless.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I don't know how you respond with things you respond with.

He uses logical fallacies all the way.

 

[buka001]

You make the same mistake all propagandists make, you assume everything is emotionally tied so you tie everything to emotion. This is like assuming there is a moral quandry involved in a rock smashing an ant.... it's simply something that happens.

But given you confuse the what with the why and the how at the same time this distinction is lost on you.


Given that you jingoistically interpret a lack of support for Ukraine as de facto support for Russia in your false dichotomy.... you won't see how this is a false statement.


And yet it is the Calvanist way to scold into submission and hate your enemy... because he is your enemy after all he was not predestined to be your friend.

You need to read this book -

Satanism and Family Murder in Late Apartheid South Africa: imaging the end of whiteness by Nicky Falkof​

Project MUSE - <i>Satanism and Family Murder in Late Apartheid South Africa: imaging the end of whiteness</i> by Nicky Falkof (review)

 

[rambo919]

You said you don't have a team yet, as if there was a possibility of choosing Russia as your team, so if you cannot see yourself supporting Russia in this conflict, all you had to do is say so.

Well here is the thing giving you the benefit of the doubt.... that all depends on what happens when this party actually ends up spreading to SA.... however as things stand ATM I don't see either side as having my interests at heart so I will probably mostly try to stay out of the way until the tide shifts in my favour.

As I have said many times before, there are no good guys here and we are all screwed one way or another. BOTH sides forced the ANC into power and helped keep them there... both are my enemy, both want to maneuver SA in such a way as to maximize profits at the expense of.... me and mine.

 

[rambo919]

You need to read this book -

Satanism and Family Murder in Late Apartheid South Africa: imaging the end of whiteness by Nicky Falkof​

Project MUSE - <i>Satanism and Family Murder in Late Apartheid South Africa: imaging the end of whiteness</i> by Nicky Falkof (review)

yeah I remember something something about satanism being Apartheid's fault.... just like everything else.

 

[Dave]

More toys to test against the Rus.

US Sending Experimental Anti-Drone Weapons to Ukraine

SAIC is among contenders for a crash Army effort to help the country down Iranian-made drones.

www.defenseone.com

The U.S. is sending anti-drone missiles as part of an experimental platform to help Ukraine down the Iranian-built drones that have devastated its energy infrastructure, according to representatives of government contracting company SAIC.

On Tuesday, the U.S. announced a large package of military aid to Ukraine focused on air defense, including what it called “10 mobile c-UAS laser-guided rocket systems.”

That follows a January competition held by the U.S. Army, which was seeking a system to fight off Shahed-136 suicide drones. SAIC, which participated in the competition, is in the running to send ten of the weapons to Ukraine, a company representative told Defense One on the sidelines of the Association of the U.S. Army’s Global Force Symposium last week.

Russia has used Shahed-136s to attack not just Ukrainian military forces, but also enough civilian infrastructure to cause blackouts across the besieged country. Ukraine has downed many of the Iranian-made drones, which cost about $20,000 apiece, but sometimes is forced to use $500,000 air-defense missiles to do so.

 

[Dave]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1644295726258634752

 

[buka001]

yeah I remember something something about satanism being Apartheid's fault.... just like everything else.

No, not what the book says at all.

You remind me of the general theme of the first section which deals with the moral panic of Satanism that was around in the early 90's.

I get the sense that you were influenced in a profound way by that moral panic.

 

[rambo919]

No, not what the book says at all.

You remind me of the general theme of the first section which deals with the moral panic of Satanism that was around in the early 90's.

I get the sense that you were influenced in a profound way by that moral panic.

Yeah I knew you were coming from that angle, I remember now:
"The Satanic panic was a momentary hysteria about a threat that never really existed, and it was promoted in SA to keep white fragility under control etc etc etc"

The same as "the swart gevaar never existed", "the rooi gevaar never existed" and currently "the woke gevaar does not exist" but "the far right gevaar does exist". All the same kind of leftist gaslighting no one other than leftists actually fall for.

 

[buka001]

Yeah I knew you were coming from that angle, I remember now:
"The Satanic panic was a momentary hysteria about a threat that never really existed, and it was promoted in SA to keep white fragility under control etc etc etc"

The same as "the swart gevaar never existed", "the rooi gevaar never existed" and currently "the woke gevaar does not exist" but "the far right gevaar does exist". All the same kind of leftist gaslighting no one other than leftists actually fall for.

Damn. It was a shot in the dark from me in trying to understand your psyche a little more. Looks like I hit the nail on the head.

Your constant need to revert to religious reasoning and illogical fear of Satanism, gave me food for thought.

 

[The Trutherizer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643663149290094592

Wooooo... It's going to be such a very good day when Russia loses. I'd drink to Ukraine winning anyway as is good and just, but I'll make it a double because it will also mean Russia lost. A well deserved loss if there ever was one. Just because they're putting out s**t like this. They are the ones who chose to invade Ukraine, destroy it as much as possible, harm Ukraine's people as much as possible and even kidnap and try to brainwash Ukrainian children. It's Russia spilling Ukrainian blood and NATO isn't even fighting Russia. They'd know it if NATO were. And they wouldn't like it. At all.

Sometimes I find myself hoping NATO would. Russia getting a well deserved PK of note would make it worth it.

 

[MiW]

Plainly stated numerous times by Russia in different forms. They want to regress to cold war times and Iron curtains and market it as a New world order. Just can't they do it on their own, without trying to drag SA down with them? Even India, China and Brazil are not biting on their stupid rhetoric.

Any peace talks must be centred on ‘new world order’: Lavrov​

Moscow wants any Ukraine peace talks to be centred on creating a “new world order”, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on a visit to Turkey.
“Any negotiation needs to be based on taking into account Russian interests … needs to be about the principles on which the new world order will be based,” Lavrov said.
He added that Russia rejects a “unipolar world order led by ‘one hegemon'”