Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part3

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NarrowBandFtw

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This is something else that shows just how Russia can't compete with the USA from a military industrial manufacturing point.

Russia, big deal that they managed to hand over two SU-57's to the RuAF.

View attachment 1357027

The US F-35 production line

View attachment 1357025
quite right, there is no contest, the one was in development for a decade more and cost tens of billions more than the other

I'll let you figure out which project was more efficient ...
 

MiW

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I completely agree with you. Passions running high.

OK, let's agree on the following (if possible):
- Putin (not Russians) should never have attacked Ukraine (irrespective of whether he was provoked or not)
- let's also agree that Azov is now part of government forces and is there to protect homeland (irrespective of any possible past)
- let's agree that anything coming out of Russia is propaganda
- let's agree that there are rogue units on both sides causing atrocities not relevant to war (soldiers fighting each other)
- let's agree that none of the above has a true reflection on ordinary Russians nor Ukrainians
- and let's finally agree that the most important thing right now is the end of this conflict and safety of the people

Question is - how can this be achieved?

The simple answer might be for Russia to exit Ukraine. But we all know that is a very simplistic way of looking at it. Russia will never do that for a number of reasons. 1/ it would lose face. 2/ it would lose any power to negotiate either now or anytime in the future (isame reason other countries are in possession of nuclear weapons - not because they want to bomb others, but because it increases their power to negotiate on global scale).

So the answer to my question is to negotiate with Putin, but nobody is prepared to do that. The EU might be prepared to do that, but they are too under the spell of the US, which has not even taken part in the negotiation of the aid corridor.

I maintain it is in the best interest of the US to prolong this conflict for as long as possible as it weakens Russia position in global markets (attempts at de-dollarization, supply of energy etc).

This is where the incessant "marketing" of everything Russia bad is so dangerous. It distracts people away from the only possible way out - negotiation.

I think you missing the fact that Putin doesn't want to negotiate. And you missing the fact that Putin did exactly the same thing as Hitler, who also had no wish to negotiate.

Russia not interested in negotiations on ‘many issues’: Former Clinton aide​

Former Special Assistant to President Bill Clinton Toby Gaty says Russia is not interested in negotiating on “many issues” to help end the war.
“After 20 years more or less of having an open Russia, we now have a Russia that’s closing, that’s becoming much more totalitarian in its treatment of its own people, and sees the West as an enemy. In fact, it is preparing its population for long war and for reduced standard of living all in the name of worry of the Russian state,” she told Al Jazeera from Washington, DC.
Gaty said Moscow was expecting to be isolated and is “preparing” for it, and the war in Ukraine was “a perfect example of that where their view is they have certain goals and they would like to achieve those goals”.
“They’re really not interested in whether we [the West] accept their definition of what Ukraine should look like or whether it should exist at all,” she added.
“Our [US] secretary of state and the Russian foreign minister have not spoken since the beginning of the Ukraine war because they don’t think there’s no point and there probably isn’t because the fighting is going to go on. It will go on all summer, autumn. And in the winter, that’s when probably negotiations will start.”
 

MiW

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google translate

85 years ago on this day, July 30, 1937, emergency "troikas" of the NKVD of the USSR received the right to pass death sentences on enemies of the people.

A very correct, important and necessary decision was made, which is so lacking now! Enemies, all evil spirits divorced like lice in the trenches!
 

Paulsie

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I think you missing the fact that Putin doesn't want to negotiate. And you missing the fact that Putin did exactly the same thing as Hitler, who also had no wish to negotiate.
Putin's side said a number of times they were prepared to negotiate, but Zelensky did not make any attempts at what had originally been discussed back in March.

Propaganda indeed, lies - perhaps. And one does not even have to want to negotiate with Putin, but there is currently no movement to even remotely try and stop the atrocities.

Let's work/make proposals towards ceasefire and then see what happens.
 

Matata

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Something is not right with this story. Russia has a lot of s400 and anti-air drone defences at sevastopol. This is a super heavily guarded port by russian military. Something is not adding up. Realistically it would be impossible for UKR forces or "partisan" groups to pull that off.

Sources:






 

MiW

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Something is not right with this story. Russia has a lot of s400 and anti-air drone defences at sevastopol. This is a super heavily guarded port by russian military. Something is not adding up. Realistically it would be impossible for UKR forces or "partisan" groups to pull that off.

Sources:







Was thinking the same might be something to do with the navy day celebrations..

 

tetrasect

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Putin's side said a number of times they were prepared to negotiate, but Zelensky did not make any attempts at what had originally been discussed back in March.

Propaganda indeed, lies - perhaps. And one does not even have to want to negotiate with Putin, but there is currently no movement to even remotely try and stop the atrocities.

Let's work/make proposals towards ceasefire and then see what happens.
"Putin's side said"... Good one, now pull the other finger.

Zelensky has been trying to talk directly to Putin since the beginning but Putin is too much of a pussy.

And we don't need to "see what happens" after they negotiate a ceasefire with Russia, we already know what happens.
 
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