Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part3

[Pak Fa Fui]

What? 9/11 or the invasion of Afghanistan? Learn to phrase your questions so that they aren't ambiguous.

Why did 60 countries approve the invasion when the actual country had nothing to do with the attack

 

[Nicodeamus]

Not true.

Changing views on child mortality and economic sanctions in Iraq: a history of lies, damned lies and statistics

In August 1990, Saddam Hussein’s army invaded Kuwait and consequently the United Nations imposed economic sanctions on Iraq. In 1991, an international military alliance expelled the Iraqi army from Kuwait during a short war. Nevertheless, the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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www.washingtonpost.com

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www.cis.org.au

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I know that Albright is dead, but it's not neccesary to make excuses for her.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Why did 60 countries approve the invasion when the actual country had nothing to do with the attack

Afghanistan was where the attack was planned. They knew about it and harboured the attackers. You don't think the UN put a blindfold on and stuck a pin in a map deciding who to invade?

 

[Nicodeamus]

Such a big excuse that 60 countries invaded Afghanistan in a UN approved invasion?

The invasion was criminal, because the Taliban was prepared to hand over Ben Ladin and there was almost no link between them an al Queida. Everyone UN etc that follows from that fact doesn't make it less criminal as the average Afghan wasn't responsible for 9/11.

In fact the evidence that Ben Ladin was responsible was so poor and extracted only from torture and the "alleged mastermind" Kalid Sehi Mohammed still hasn't been tried for it. Ben Laden at the time was on Kidney Dialasis and supposibly this mastermind prenetrated the best defenses in the world using a satelite phone to coordinate a bunch of Saudis to fly planes across the world into the twin towers.

911 - The truth in 5 minutes - James Corbett

911 - The truth in 5 minutes - James Corbett

odysee.com

to believe that story you need to be slightly naive.

You’ve drawn attention to the fact that the United States dismissed Taliban offers to turn over bin Laden to a third party for trial. Clearly the U.S. sought nothing less than war. But that doesn’t show that there were genuinely peaceful alternatives to war. If the Taliban had given up bin Laden, it probably would have been related to the fact that Washington moved a massive military force to Afghanistan’s borders. While the U.S. rejection of peace overtures demonstrates Washington’s preference for war, it does not show that the absence of coercive power would have succeeded in bringing the perpetrators of September 11 to justice. (And the same follows for other cases where the U.S. rejected concessions designed to forestall war: by Saddam Hussein in 1990- 91 or by Serbia in 1999.)

On the War in Afghanistan, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Stephen R. Shalom

The Noam Chomsky Website.

chomsky.info

You're very sensitive on Afghanistan and Iraq, was your son one of the war criminals that participated?

 

[Nicodeamus]

Afghanistan was where the attack was planned. They knew about it and harboured the attackers. You don't think the UN put a blindfold on and stuck a pin in a map deciding who to invade?

The Afghans were prepared to hand over ben ladin, but they asked for the evidence, of which there today still is very little.

 

[Mirai]

The invasion was criminal, because the Taliban was prepared to hand over Ben Ladin and there was almost no link between them an al Queida. Everyone UN etc that follows from that fact doesn't make it less criminal as the average Afghan wasn't responsible for 9/11.
In fact the evidence that Ben Ladin was responsible was so poor and extracted only from torture and the "alleged mastermind" Kalid Sehi Mohammed still hasn't been tried for it.

On the War in Afghanistan, Noam Chomsky interviewed by Stephen R. Shalom

The Noam Chomsky Website.

chomsky.info

You're very sensitive on Afghanistan and Iraq, was your son one of the war criminals that participated?

There was ample evidence and Bin Ladin even admitted to masterminding 911 attacks.Al Qaeda was responsible:

He initially denied involvement, but later recanted his false statements.[2][23][24]

September 11 attacks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Taliban refused to hand over Bin Ladin despite their religious council ordering it.

On the same day, a grand council of 300 or 700[65] Muslim clerics across Afghanistan, who had convened to decide bin Laden's fate, issued a fatwa recommending that the Islamic Emirate ask bin Laden to leave their country.

The Taliban was hosting terrorist camps in Afghanistan which had also attacked the Americans in 1998.

The U.S. never formally indicted bin Laden for the 9/11 attacks, but he was on the FBI's Most Wanted List for the bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya.[32][33]

 

[Nicodeamus]

There was ample evidence and Bin Ladin even admitted to masterminding 911 attacks.
The Taliban refused to hand over Bin Ladin despite their religious council ordering it.

On the same day, a grand council of 300 or 700[65] Muslim clerics across Afghanistan, who had convened to decide bin Laden's fate, issued a fatwa recommending that the Islamic Emirate ask bin Laden to leave their country.

The Taliban was hosting terrorist camps in Afghanistan which had also attacked the Americans in 1998.

The Taliban was prepared to send him to a US ally, but the US wanted to invade anyway. They didn't want to negotiate with "terrorists".

The “Best Evidence” Contradicting The Official Position on 9/11: Excerpts from 9/11 Unmasked: An International Review Panel Investigation

• The 9/11 Commission’s account of each man’s activities is contradicted by considerable evidence.

Part 7: Osama bin Laden and the Hijackers
At the heart of the official account of 9/11 was the claim that the attacks were conceived by Osama bin Laden, and were carried out by 19 members of bin Laden’s al-Qaeda organization. These 19 men were all said to be, like Bin Laden himself, devout Muslims, with Mohamed Atta, the “ringleader” of the group, described as having become extremely religious. However, evidence shows that the claim about Osama bin Laden was unsupported and that the claims about the alleged hijackers were untrue:

• The FBI did not list 9/11 as one of the terrorist acts for which bin Laden was wanted;
• The claim that Mohamed Atta went to Portland, Maine, on September 10 and 11 has raised compelling reasons to doubt it;
• The claim that a Dulles airport video showed five hijackers was negated by its unstamped images, and too fast a speed for a security video;
• The claim that the Mohamed Atta and the hijackers were devout Muslims was negated by media reports of their use of alcohol, cocaine, and strip clubs;
• The claim that Atta arrived in the US in June 2000 is negated by Able Danger evidence that he arrived in Jan-Feb. 2000.

Part 8: The Phone Calls from the 9/11 Flights
The claim that there were phone calls from passengers and crew from the 9/11 flights was essential to the official account of 9/11. According to this account:

• Officials first learned of the hijacking of one of the flights from phone calls from Barbara Olson to her husband Ted Olson, then solicitor general of the United States.xvii
• Phone calls from the planes were the source of information about how the hijackings occurred and what was going on inside the planes.xviii
• For example, one of Barbara Olson’s calls was the only source of the report that the alleged hijackers had box cutters.xix

According to the early press stories, some of the calls were made from onboard phones, and about 15 of them were made from cell phones.xx However, studies showed that most of the reported cell phone calls would have been impossible, and by 2006, the FBI declared that only two of the calls were indeed from cell phones.xxi

There has been much discussion about “fake news”. Some of the claims about false news are themselves false; others are true. The most fateful example of fake news in the twenty-first century thus far (2018) has been the official account of 9/11.

For years “we have been subjected to an onslaught of U.S. government and corporate media propaganda about 9/11 that has been used to support the “war on terror” that has resulted in millions of deaths around the world. It has been used as a pretext to attack nations throughout the Middle East, South Asia, and Africa. It has led to a great increase in Islamophobia since Muslims were accused of being responsible for the attacks. It has led to a crackdown on civil liberties in the United States, the exponential growth of a vast and costly national security apparatus, the spreading of fear and anxiety on a great scale, and a state of permanent war that is pushing the world toward a nuclear confrontation.” xxiii

It is long past the time to set the story straight.

 

[Mirai]

The Taliban was prepared to send him to a US ally, but the US wanted to invade anyway. They didn't want to negotiate with "terrorists".

The Taliban hosted terrorists who bombed Americans as far back as 1998.

Coll, Steve (2004). Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001. New York: Penguin Press. ISBN 978-1-59420-007-6.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

The invasion was criminal, because the Taliban was prepared to hand over Ben Ladin and there was almost no link between them an al Queida. Everyone UN etc that follows from that fact doesn't make it less criminal as the average Afghan wasn't responsible for 9/11.

Is that why the Taliban hid Bin Laden for over a decade?

 

[Nicodeamus]

The Taliban hosted terrorists who bombed Americans as far back as 1998.

First of all, the evidence that Ben Laden was responsible was poor and still is, but even if so, all that they could have done is phone the few clinics in Afghanistan that does a routine Kidney Dialysis and ask "hey is there a guy called Osama coming in next week?".

The Taliban hated Ben Laden as the US put him in there to fight to soviet union (your war criminal hero Brezinski is responsible for that one).

 

[Nicodeamus]

Is that why the Taliban hid Bin Laden for over a decade?

They didn't, they were prepared to hand him over. The US ignored their basic demands for evidence, after being pressured they were prepared to send him to a US ally. The US refused to negotiate with them and just decided to invaded.

The joke is that the US eventually negotiated with the taliban after they couldn't bring democracy to that place.

But Trump and Biden shouldn’t blame one another. It was George W. Bush who refused to negotiate al Qaeda’s extradition. Bush then let Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri escape to Pakistan while he chose instead to focus on regime change in Kabul and later Baghdad. It was Bush who decided on the strategy of building and training up an Afghan National Army to secure the new regime in power and take the fight to its rivals. American officers, with no one to fight, found and made enemies where there were none before. By 2004, the Taliban, whose surrender Bush had refused to accept, returned to insurgency against the occupation.

Blame Bush and Obama for the Afghan Disaster - Antiwar.com Original

Former President Trump, President Biden and their partisans are rushing to blame each other for the debacle unfolding now in Afghanistan. The - Scott Horton for Antiwar.com Original

original.antiwar.com

 

[Cosmik Debris]

You're very sensitive on Afghanistan and Iraq, was your son one of the war criminals that participated?

No, he was a member of the British Army that participated in Operation Herrick in Helmand Province in Afghanistan. You made the accusation, now tell me what his war crimes were?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Same reason Putin ordered his invasion when Ukraine actually had nothing to do with that attack on Moscow.

Big difference. Putin's invasion does not have the UN approval the 60 country coalition did.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

The Taliban was prepared to send him to a US ally, but the US wanted to invade anyway. They didn't want to negotiate with "terrorists".

It wasn't the US that invaded. It was a 60 country coalition. You always seem to ignore that inconvenient fact and blame the US. Why?

 

[Nicodeamus]

No, he was a member of the British Army that participated in Operation Herrick in Helmand Province in Afghanistan. You made the accusation, now tell me what his war crimes were?

The entire invasion was a crime to begin with.

But to the specifics,

BBC TV’s flagship “Panorama” programme has revealed further evidence that UK special forces killed unarmed detainees in Afghanistan and planted weapons near their bodies to justify their crimes.

The BBC also found evidence that senior officers, including recently retired General Sir Mark Carleton-Smith who headed the Special Forces at the time, were aware of concerns within the Special Air Service (SAS) but failed to pass on evidence to the military police.

BBC’s Panorama exposes British war crimes in Afghanistan

The airing of <em>SAS Death Squads Exposed: A British War Crime?</em> comes at a sensitive time amid furious claims by Britain that Russia’s armed forces have committed multiple war crimes in Ukraine.

www.wsws.org

 

[Unhappy438]

 

[Cosmik Debris]

First of all, the evidence that Ben Laden was responsible was poor and still is, but even if so, all that they could have done is phone the few clinics in Afghanistan that does a routine Kidney Dialysis and ask "hey is there a guy called Osama coming in next week?".

The Taliban hated Ben Laden as the US put him in there to fight to soviet union (your war criminal hero Brezinski is responsible for that one).

Yeah, they have kidney dialysis in Afghanistan...

 

[Nicodeamus]

Yeah, they have kidney dialysis in Afghanistan...

the assumingly few clinics would be easier to track down (or even blow up with a precision missle) than invading a country on the few weeks that the guy called Osama comes in?

The bin Laden mystery deepened Jan. 18 when the president of Pakistan, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, told CNN that the terrorist leader, who had looked gaunt and haggard in his last video, broadcast Dec. 26, was probably dead of kidney failure. "I give the highest priority now, to be frank, that he is dead for the reason that he is a patient, he is a kidney patient," Musharraf said. He buttressed his account by saying that two kidney dialysis machines had been sent into Afghanistan before the war, at least one for bin Laden.

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www.washingtonpost.com

 

[Cosmik Debris]

They didn't, they were prepared to hand him over. The US ignored their basic demands for evidence, after being pressured they were prepared to send him to a US ally. The US refused to negotiate with them and just decided to invaded.

The joke is that the US eventually negotiated with the taliban after they couldn't bring democracy to that place.

Blame Bush and Obama for the Afghan Disaster - Antiwar.com Original

Former President Trump, President Biden and their partisans are rushing to blame each other for the debacle unfolding now in Afghanistan. The - Scott Horton for Antiwar.com Original

original.antiwar.com

So the US looked for him for ten years while the Taliban hid him willing to hand him over? You're ridiculous Nico.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

The entire invasion was a crime to begin with.

Formulate the charge and present it to the UN then.