Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part3

[Nicodeamus]

Vastly differences reasons as to why the UK was in the trenches of France and Belgium in WW1, to why Ukraine is defending itself in Ukraine.

You are conflating these two situations.

Jingoistic Nationalism which was present in the lead-up to WW1, brought the UK to France to counter German Nationalism.

Ukraine fighting for its survival is different. If Ukraine stops fighting, it loses its identity, its sovereignty.

Ukrainian jingoism was trumped up in the events leading up to the Maidan government. They even reference Stephan Bandera and celebrate him. They wanted to "stand up to Russia" and all the crap that goes with it.

As with all nationalisms, the average ukranian doesn't give a toot about the west or russia and just want a job, family etc.

A Ukrainian Sociologist Explains Why Everything You Know About Ukraine Is Probably Wrong

The Ukraine crisis is extremely complex and little understood. Sociologist Volodymyr Ishchenko explains the crisis’s origins, the fictions that surround it, and why war is still far from inevitable.

jacobin.com

 

[Nicodeamus]

For what? Their own country where they can pick and choose who they trade with. Their own country so no one can force them to do something against their will.

Compare that to the Japanese and South Koreans who welcomed a foreign army and prospered (Japan being defeated in WW2). The Vietnamese lost about 2 million against America only to go back and trade with America again. That is how stupid national pride is.

 

[buka001]

Ukrainian jingoism was trumped up in the events leading up to the Maidan government. They even reference Stephan Bandera and celebrate him. They wanted to "stand up to Russia" and all the crap that goes with it.

As with all nationalisms, the average ukranian doesn't give a toot about the west or russia and just want a job, family etc.

A Ukrainian Sociologist Explains Why Everything You Know About Ukraine Is Probably Wrong

The Ukraine crisis is extremely complex and little understood. Sociologist Volodymyr Ishchenko explains the crisis’s origins, the fictions that surround it, and why war is still far from inevitable.

jacobin.com

Ukraine has not invaded anyone.

Russia has. Their jingoistic pride has driven them to revitalise the good old days of the USSR.

Strange how there has not been one word of condemnation from you for Russia's nationalistic pride and how that is leading to the deaths of Russian soldiers ...

 

[MiW]

Nope ....
What has happened is how democracy works.
Its the same as when the ANC eventually loses favour with the populance and they vote someone else in.

Actually it's a sign of Russia interfering and sabotaging all the governments they can. I really hope that people realise that, but as proven worldwide , people go for the ones who shout the loudest and lie the most.

 

[buka001]

Compare that to the Japanese and South Koreans who welcomed a foreign army and prospered (Japan being defeated in WW2). The Vietnamese lost about 2 million against America only to go back and trade with America again. That is how stupid national pride is.

Japan did not welcome the USA. They fought a war against them. Part of the conditions of their loss to the USA after being nuked twice was to allow the Americans in. Japan was the agressor here. They attacked the USA.

South Korea was not invaded by the USA. It was invaded by North Korea and the USA and others came to their help. The Americans remained in South Korea to help defend it against future attacks.

You are absolutely clueless with your comparisons and conflations.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Japan did not welcome the USA. They fought a war against them. Part of the conditions of their loss to the USA after being nuked twice was to allow the Americans in. Japan was the agressor here. They attacked the USA.

South Korea was not invaded by the USA. It was invaded by North Korea and the USA and others came to their help. The Americans remained in South Korea to help defend it against future attacks.

You are absolutely clueless with your comparisons and conflations.

Its fsck off funny watching Nico try to use history to justify his stupid posts and then getting the history so wrong that he paints himself as clueless.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Japan did not welcome the USA. They fought a war against them. Part of the conditions of their loss to the USA after being nuked twice was to allow the Americans in. Japan was the agressor here. They attacked the USA.

South Korea was not invaded by the USA. It was invaded by North Korea and the USA and others came to their help. The Americans remained in South Korea to help defend it against future attacks.

Polls constantly show that Asian countries prefer US occupation, with the exception of Okinawa where numerous US soldiers have been accused of raping local women.

Okinawan women's civic group chronicles sex crimes by U.S. military

Okinawan Women Act Against Military Violence has gathered together evidence relating to around 350 postwar cases in the prefecture.

www.japantimes.co.jp

You're also being clueless on the origin of the Korean conflict, it had to do with great power politics as with Ukraine.

“At the time, Korean politics ran the gamut from communism on the extreme left to right-wing nationalists, all vying for power,” Kim says. “There was a lot of contention between the Soviet and U.S. occupation forces, and with the polarization of Korean leadership, it was a volatile situation,” says Kim. “Each viewed the other as illegitimate. Both wanted to invade the other to unify Korea.”

Scattered border skirmishes from 1948-50 kept tensions simmering. In 1948, the United States called on the United Nations to sponsor a vote for Koreans to determine their future government. When the North refused to participate, the South formed its own government in Seoul under the anti-communist Syngman Rhee. In retaliation, Kim Il Sung, a former communist guerilla, was named Premier of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK).

What Caused the Korean War and Why Did the US Get Involved?

The Cold War conflict was a civil war that became a proxy battle between the superpowers as they clashed over communism and democracy.

www.history.com

You are absolutely clueless with your comparisons and conflations.

not really, I am well aware of the WW2 history

The Vietnamese war was fought on similar grounds and with a similar rational to the Korean War. Korea prospered from US occupation, Vietnam destroyed itself and then later went around to trade with America anyways.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Polls constantly show that Asian countries prefer US occupation, with the exception of Okinawa where numerous US soldiers have been accused of raping local women.

not really, I am well aware of the WW2 history

The Vietnamese war was fought on similar grounds and with a similar rational to the Korean War. Korea prospered from US occupation, Vietnam destroyed itself and then later went around to trade with America anyways.

bwahahahah you are aware of WW2 history in so much as you always get it fundamentally wrong.

 

[surface]

I really don't get as to why you guys fight olga's hubby. It is like debating with rambo, riet or ponderer in philosophical debates. Evidence is not going to win this.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I really don't get as to why you guys fight olga's hubby. It is like debating with rambo, riet or ponderer in philosophical debates. Evidence is not going to win this.

We're helping him out economically and in his marriage.

He only gets paid to defend his position, and of course Olga is definitely not happy unless he defends her beloved USSR

 

[Nicodeamus]

bwahahahah you are aware of WW2 history in so much as you always get it fundamentally wrong.

well no, your response shows that it's a disadvantage when you know more about the nuance involved in a subject. If all you study is WW2 then every problem is Chamberlain and every solution is Churchill.

 

[LetsDance]

Biden decision to ban Russian oil 'undermined' by 'flirting' with Iran, Venezuela, congressman says

Rep. Rick Crawford, R-Ark., took aim at the Biden administration over reports that they were weighing purchasing petroleum from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela.

www.foxnews.com

Eat that toxicbunny

 

[LetsDance]

Running Out Of Sweet Spots: Shale Growth May Not Materialize | OilPrice.com

While short term forecasts for U.S. shale growth remain upbeat, some industry insiders are warning that the industry is running out of sweet spots to produce

oilprice.com

and this

 

[buka001]

Polls constantly show that Asian countries prefer US occupation, with the exception of Okinawa where numerous US soldiers have been accused of raping local women.

not really, I am well aware of the WW2 history

The Vietnamese war was fought on similar grounds and with a similar rational to the Korean War. Korea prospered from US occupation, Vietnam destroyed itself and then later went around to trade with America anyways.

The US does not occupy Japan. They are now guests within Japan. They are welcomed because of the economic benefit that these bases bring and the significant strategic security that having a US base in your country brings.

The US was largely responsible for the Vietnam War. They blocked the 1954 Geneva Accords that were drafted and agreed upon after France was kicked out by Vietnam.

Those accords temporarily split Vietnam along the 17th parallel, with elections to be held in 1956 on the subject of unification. The US ensured that these elections did not take place. North Vietnam then took up arms to enact what those elections would have certified.

 

[The Trutherizer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1539832615611600897

India is doing it so they can buy discounted Russian oil.
They are in the position where they are a sizeable consumer, but not a very large producer. So they are likely between a rock and a hard place on this score. Much like the EU. Unlike the EU they don't have the pocket depth to aggressively pursue alternative sources at significant expense.
That said they will not be making friends this way. Not unless they have clear targets to find an alternative. Which it just so happens they do. Like China they are aiming to electrify transportation substantially. Even as soon as 2025. And like China they hope to play a substantial role in future EV manufacturing.

 

[Blu82]

Running Out Of Sweet Spots: Shale Growth May Not Materialize | OilPrice.com

While short term forecasts for U.S. shale growth remain upbeat, some industry insiders are warning that the industry is running out of sweet spots to produce

oilprice.com

and this

Ukraine had ample gas reserves that they were willing to sell to Europe. Russia unfortunately invaded to make sure they couldn't.

 

[ToxicBunny]

well no, your response shows that it's a disadvantage when you know more about the nuance involved in a subject. If all you study is WW2 then every problem is Chamberlain and every solution is Churchill.

Yeah no... just keep digging that hole buddy boy.

 

[LetsDance]

The US imposed sanctions on Japan before Pearl Harbour. Sanctions are a form of warfare. Kind of like Ukraine egging Russia on. It wanted the war. It made them extremely rich and from that wealth we see 800 US bases around the world.

 

[Major Boredom]

Where is Ukraine sending child soldiers to?

This is a new one... Links please

 

[ToxicBunny]

Biden decision to ban Russian oil 'undermined' by 'flirting' with Iran, Venezuela, congressman says

Rep. Rick Crawford, R-Ark., took aim at the Biden administration over reports that they were weighing purchasing petroleum from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela.

www.foxnews.com

Eat that toxicbunny

Fair play, for once you provided a link.

Granted I do think Fox News is a bit suspect, but its infinitely better than shyte like The Grayzone.

Also would be interesting, but also understandable to flirt with Iran and Venezuela for oil supplies. They aren't invading sovereign neighbours currently, The US just disagrees with the way the government is run/structured etc.