Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part3

[deathprophet215]

Lose? They're not the ones fighting for a 3 day victory...

Whether you'd like to continue to deceive yourself doesn't really matter to me, all I see is that the invading army is claiming their enemy's territory, in that sense they've already succeeded in some of their objectives.

 

[ForceFate]

Who was any of the Allies post-WW2 liberating in their multiple wars? Were they liberating Vietnam?

I don't know why you need to bring this up but let me ask... Did they claim to liberate the Vietnamese or was it an extension of the cold war?

Iraq?

Which Iraqi war? The George Snr war or the Dubya war?

Afghanistan?

This was a hunt for fundamentalists that turned into something else.

Serbia?

War in Serbia?

Falkland Islands?

Was this not a territorial war? Extension of their imperial power?

So now, tell me how this justifies Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

 

[Mirai]

Also, "no one is winning", whilst the invading army is capturing strategic point after strategic point grinding what's left of the Ukrainian military to dust. Keep seething.

Russians have had some tactical wins recently because of political interference into an earlier withdrawal. Fall of Kramatorsk will be an operational level loss. No Strategic losses of political ones yet.

 

[deathprophet215]

I don't know why you need to bring this up but let me ask... Did they claim to liberate the Vietnamese or was it an extension of the cold war?

Which Iraqi war? The George Snr war or the Dubya war?

This was a hunt for fundamentalists that turned into something else.

War in Serbia?

Was this not a territorial war? Extension of their imperial power?

So now, tell me how this justifies Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

So the cold war is somehow a more justified reason for invading, gangraping, and using biological weapons on a country on the other side of the world right? Don't think so.

Every single Iraqi war, what gives anyone the right to intervene in domestic problems in a sovereign nation? How is that different from the Russian invasion, where there were separatists being shelled by Ukrainian forces for 8 years without any outrage from you because your CNN didn't program you to feel outraged?

"A hunt for fundamentalists" - You mean another invasion of a country rich in oil and opium using the pretense of "Liberating" them from Islamic fundamentalists. I don't believe retarded propaganda.

"War in Serbia" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

"Territorial war extension of their imperial power" - How is this any different than what the Russians are trying to do in Ukraine? The only difference is, Ukraine is right next door, the Falklands are on the other side of the planet next to Argentina...

I don't claim anything justifies anything, I'm pointing out by the same metrics you blame Russians of being evil for this, your side of history is just as "evil", since you engage in many wars, toppling governments, claiming you're "liberating fundamentalists" instead of "denazification" is just a different spin on the same imperialistic oppression of others. My role in this discussion is to remind you of your hypocrisy.

 

[Mirai]

"Ukraine is suffering with thousands of its citizens being killed" - You mean the country that supported the ANC? And now after having supported my geopolitical enemy you expect me to care about what their enemies do to them? Think again.

Russia was the leading republic of the USSR.

 

[deathprophet215]

Russia was the leading republic of the USSR.

Sure, doesn't mean there weren't Ukrainians sympathetic to them, they're still sympathetic. Why would I have any care for a people who would sacrifice my people for their communist agenda?

 

[deathprophet215]

Russians have had some tactical wins recently because of political interference into an earlier withdrawal. Fall of Kramatorsk will be an operational level loss. No Strategic losses of political ones yet.

At least you admit Russia is inflicting strategic losses, which is the same as saying Ukraine is experiencing strategic losses. Which is my point.

 

[Mirai]

So the cold war is somehow a more justified reason for invading, gangraping, and using biological weapons on a country on the other side of the world right? Don't think so.

Biological weapons?

Every single Iraqi war, what gives anyone the right to intervene in domestic problems in a sovereign nation? How is that different from the Russian invasion, where there were separatists being shelled by Ukrainian forces for 8 years without any outrage from you because your CNN didn't program you to feel outraged?

Saddam Hussein actually did invade Iraq and Saudi Arabia and was throwing rockets at Israel.

I don't claim anything justifies anything, I'm pointing out by the same metrics you blame Russians of being evil for this, your side of history is just as "evil", since you engage in many wars, toppling governments, claiming you're "liberating fundamentalists" instead of "denazification" is just a different spin on the same imperialistic oppression of others. My role in this discussion is to remind you of your hypocrisy.

If you consider any wars to be evil, then you should also consider Russia's war of aggression to be evil.

There was peace. Next moment Russia rabble roused and armed insurgents. Then they invaded. Now people are dying because of Russia.

It's that simple.

And nobody really expects you to be here to attack Russia. It's just crazy to be defending Russia because in your understanding America should not have gone after Saddam Hussein in 2002.

Otherwise all discussion can return to the level of ... oh but your ancestors did x, therefore Russia can murder in 2022.

 

[Mirai]

Sure, doesn't mean there weren't Ukrainians sympathetic to them, they're still sympathetic. Why would I have any care for a people who would sacrifice my people for their communist agenda?

When were your people sacrificed by Ukraine? Ukraine was run by Russia, Russia was the leading and dominant SSR in the USSR.

 

[Mirai]

At least you admit Russia is inflicting strategic losses, which is the same as saying Ukraine is experiencing strategic losses. Which is my point.

Tactical. Russia has had many tactical losses too.

 

[ForceFate]

So the cold war is somehow a more justified reason for invading, gangraping, and using biological weapons on a country on the other side of the world right? Don't think so.

Who introduced this argument?

Every single Iraqi war, what gives anyone the right to intervene in domestic problems in a sovereign nation? How is that different from the Russian invasion, where there were separatists being shelled by Ukrainian forces for 8 years without any outrage from you because your CNN didn't program you to feel outraged?

"A hunt for fundamentalists" - You mean another invasion of a country rich in oil and opium using the pretense of "Liberating" them from Islamic fundamentalists. I don't believe retarded propaganda.

"War in Serbia" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

"Territorial war extension of their imperial power" - How is this any different than what the Russians are trying to do in Ukraine? The only difference is, Ukraine is right next door, the Falklands are on the other side of the planet next to Argentina...

I don't claim anything justifies anything, I'm pointing out by the same metrics you blame Russians of being evil for this, your side of history is just as "evil", since you engage in many wars, toppling governments, claiming you're "liberating fundamentalists" instead of "denazification" is just a different spin on the same imperialistic oppression of others. My role in this discussion is to remind you of your hypocrisy.

 

[Mirai]

yeah, it's a proxy war.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540820179206082560

I understand that it's not CIA but the DIA which is responsible for military level intel.

 

[deathprophet215]

Biological weapons?



Saddam Hussein actually did invade Iraq and Saudi Arabia and was throwing rockets at Israel.



If you consider any wars to be evil, then you should also consider Russia's war of aggression to be evil.

There was peace. Next moment Russia rabble roused and armed insurgents. Then they invaded. Now people are dying because of Russia.

It's that simple.

And nobody really expects you to be here to attack Russia. It's just crazy to be defending Russia because in your understanding America should not have gone after Saddam Hussein in 2002.

Otherwise all discussion can return to the level of ... oh but your ancestors did x, therefore Russia can murder in 2022.

Agent Orange

Agent Orange was a powerful herbicide used by U.S. military forces during the Vietnam War to eliminate forest cover and crops for North Vietnamese and Viet

www.history.com

Who said I consider war evil? I said that people like to cry like hypocrites about the Russians doing exactly what the Americans and the English are doing and have been doing their entire history? My problem is with hypocrisy, not war.

There was peace in many places before Anglo-Americans decided it was time to install puppets. Iran and Gaddafi for instance.

It's crazy for me to be pointing out that you're overly emotional about Ukrainians, when you weren't overly emotional about American or English imperial wars? You racist.

By the logic of your last sentence, you should have no ties to the USA or England? Yet somehow you still support their imperialism? You racist.

 

[deathprophet215]

Who introduced this argument?

You did, since you attempted to frame it as a more acceptable reason for invading Vietnam.

 

[vaakseun]

Russia hit a missile factory in Kyiv: defence ministry​

Russia said its early morning strike on the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, had hit a missile factory.


The Artyom factory “was the target, as military infrastructure” the Russian defence ministry said in a statement, adding that damage to a nearby residential building was caused by a Ukrainian air defence missile.

---

Yeah.. just as I thought.

You got that Zbots? The official Kremlin line is option "B".

 

[Mirai]

Agent Orange

Agent Orange was a powerful herbicide used by U.S. military forces during the Vietnam War to eliminate forest cover and crops for North Vietnamese and Viet

www.history.com

Who said I consider war evil? I said that people like to cry like hypocrites about the Russians doing exactly what the Americans and the English are doing and have been doing their entire history? My problem is with hypocrisy, not war.

There have been wars everywhere. Since the dawn of written history there have been conflicts. Yep we normally consider a war of aggression to be evil. It's also not necessary to discuss every conflict in living history to criticise this war. We're not doing a comparative discussion of wars here. This thread is about Ukraine.

There was peace in many places before Anglo-Americans decided it was time to install puppets. Iran and Gaddafi for instance.

There was peace?

It's crazy for me to be pointing out that you're overly emotional about Ukrainians, when you weren't overly emotional about American or English imperial wars? You racist.

I'm not emotional. Also I actually criticised the Serbian Kosovo bombings on the USENET at the time. However the Serbs were definitely not angels. I was also hoping for more diplomacy prior to the second Iraqi War. First Iraqi War was a response of Saddam Hussein attack on Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and later Israel.

By the logic of your last sentence, you should have no ties to the USA or England? Yet somehow you still support their imperialism? You racist.

Could you explain where I support anybody's imperialism?

Please cite.

 

[Mirai]

Actually according to Stratfor/Barron's after US occupation of Afghanistan the number of civilian deaths decreased. American intervention there was set up to democratise Afghanistan. Sadly Afghanistan decided to go the Taliban route. Something similar happened in Iraq. This is very tragic.Still no matter how you judge the West annexation of Iraq or Afghanistan was never on the cards, while detruction of Ukraine and annexation is the aim of the Russians.

This however does not happen in Eastern Europe where the fall of communism in most of Eastern Europe brought peace and stability and no longer threat of nuclear destruction. Except for Yugoslavia the Eastern Europeans decided to adopt Western democracy. It's only fair that Ukraine is allowed a fair shot at democracy too.

 

[Mirai]

Agent Orange

Agent Orange was a powerful herbicide used by U.S. military forces during the Vietnam War to eliminate forest cover and crops for North Vietnamese and Viet

www.history.com

Who said I consider war evil? I said that people like to cry like hypocrites about the Russians doing exactly what the Americans and the English are doing and have been doing their entire history? My problem is with hypocrisy, not war.

There was peace in many places before Anglo-Americans decided it was time to install puppets. Iran and Gaddafi for instance.

It's crazy for me to be pointing out that you're overly emotional about Ukrainians, when you weren't overly emotional about American or English imperial wars? You racist.

By the logic of your last sentence, you should have no ties to the USA or England? Yet somehow you still support their imperialism? You racist.

Biologicals would be considered weapons primarily targeting human beings in the form of viruses, bacteria and fungi. Examples would be B anthracis and Y pestis. Anyhow this is off topic.

At least you're not bringing up the Russian lie about biolabs in Ukraine.

 

[vaakseun]

Whether you'd like to continue to deceive yourself doesn't really matter to me, all I see is that the invading army is claiming their enemy's territory, in that sense they've already succeeded in some of their objectives.

Look, you're clearly not the sharpest pencil in the box, so here is an animated map showing Russian territorial gains and losses over the past 4 months. Is this what you call "winning"?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527128634271469568

 

[Mirai]

You did, since you attempted to frame it as a more acceptable reason for invading Vietnam.

The Cold War was a war of existential survival between East and West. We almost had nuclear war as result of that war which would had led to death of hundreds of millions.

People too young to remember laugh this off. But it wasn't a joke.

And who was to blame... the USSR. America was the first nuclear power and once it defeated Japan it did not threaten with nukes. Russia came along and stole the bomb from the Americans and then a nuclear arms race started. The Yanks could have told Stalin: abdicate or we turn Moscow into Hiroshima. This is what the USSR would have done in their place. The West was exhausted by the war. The Soviet Russians, not so much.