Russo-Ukrainian War - 2022 Edition - Part3

[ForceFate]

You did, since you attempted to frame it as a more acceptable reason for invading Vietnam.

Red herring.

You asked me a question, to which I responded. But somehow you accuse me of introducing the argument? In Vietnam, was it not the democratic south fighting the communist north?

 

[Dave]

When were your people sacrificed by Ukraine? Ukraine was run by Russia, Russia was the leading and dominant SSR in the USSR.

You know, just when we thought the biggest crazy had posted, another one comes along to take the award.

This one is certifiable.

 

[Mirai]

You know, just when we thought the biggest crazy had posted, another one comes along to take the award.

This one is certifiable.

Dormant account since 2013.

I suspect these are sockpuppet accounts, people's alts.

 

[Thugscub]

You know, just when we thought the biggest crazy had posted, another one comes along to take the award.

This one is certifiable.

The world be full of crazies.

 

[vaakseun]

Speaking of crazies, another hostile rant by duma member, Andrey Gurulyov:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541035666187980800

 

[Mirai]

Just to post this because some people think the Cold War was a joke.

During the Cold War period, the Warsaw Pact countries came up with many different plans for attacking Western Europe. The planned attack on Denmark was for a long time structured around the same premise: primarily Polish but also DDR forces would form the advance guard in an attack on Jutland. An attack on Sjælland would be implemented primarily by Polish forces supported by DDR and (later) other Soviet forces. This simplified sketch from the beginning of the 1960s shows two nuclear bombs being dropped on the Danish cities of Roskilde (near the capital Copenhagen) and Esbjerg (on the west coast of Jutland). In the event of war, NATO reinforcements would supplement the Danish forces via Esbjerg. It was expected that these two nuclear bombs dropped in the first days of the war would put a stop to Danish resistance. If this was not the case, the Warsaw Pact plan in the following days was to drop a large number of tactical nuclear bombs all over Denmark, on Jutland between 27 and 52 bombs on the first day and between 16 and 32 on the second. Such an attack would cause incalculable damage to the civilian population. It is a wonder how the invaders themselves imagined they would avoid nuclear irradiation (probably something between an unrealistic belief that they would be protected from exposure and a lack of respect for their own soldiers’ lives). The ship symbol indicates a landing on Sjælland. (Colonel Kuklinski Intelligence Museum, Warsaw Poland).

Original map here: https://coldwarsites.net/country/poland/colonel-kuklinski-intelligence-museum-warsaw/

 

[Mirai]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541057419064770564

 

[Dave]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541077811170930688

 

[Dave]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541057419064770564

For those who don't want to go to Twitter.

Ukraine purchased 2900 RGW 90 Matador directly from Dynamit Nobel Defense

In March, Kyiv purchased 5,100 such grenade launchers. Therefore, in total, Ukraine has already received 8,000 units of such weapons.

 

[sefeddt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1541057158770475010

 

[tetrasect]

Why would I have any care for a people who would sacrifice my people for their communist agenda?

"My people" should mean South Africans. Get with the program.

Ukrainians never did anything for me, except support the people that now treat me as a second-class citizen.

I can already see by the you're talking here why people would treat you like a second-class citizen. Pretty sure the blatant racism will surface shortly if you continue.

 

[Nicodeamus]

I understand that it's not CIA but the DIA which is responsible for military level intel.

The CIA has been training insurgencies in Ukraine since the 1950s. Most of them were Neo Nazis.

 

[Mirai]

The CIA has been training insurgencies in Ukraine since the 1950s. Most of them were Neo Nazis.

And they have a UFO at Roswell.

 

[Nicodeamus]

And they have a UFO at Roswell.

you can just go to the CIAs own website for their inconvenient cold war allies....

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/STUDIES%20IN%20INTELLIGENCE%20NAZI%20-%20RELATED%20ARTICLES_0015.pdf

As for Ukraine's history and cooperation in the holocaust.

Based on present-day borders, one in every four Jewish victims of the Holocaust was murdered in Ukraine.

In the history of the Holocaust, the summer and fall of 1941 are especially significant because they represent a period of critical escalation. In a matter of months mobile Nazi killing units, which had begun shooting all adult male Jews during the invasion of the Soviet Union, expanded to include a genocide targeting women, children, and entire Jewish communities.

On January 20, 1942, top Nazi officials and representatives of the Reich authorities met in Wannsee, a suburb outside of Berlin. At this meeting, chaired by Reinhard Heydrich, the Reich Security Main Office formed the extermination plans for the “Final Solution to the Jewish Question.” The Wannsee Conference, as it is now called, led to the creation of a network of extermination camps designed to systematically murder the entire European Jewish population.

Before the killing centers opened at Birkenau, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, and Majdanek, more than 1.5 million Jews had already been murdered by the Germans, their Axis allies, and local collaborators in Ukraine, Belarus, and other USSR republics. These were the first victims of the Holocaust.

The “Holocaust by Bullets” in Ukraine | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

The Holocaust in Ukraine represents the first phase of the Holocaust in which an estimated 1.5 million Jews were shot to death at close range in ravines, open fields, and forests.

www.nationalww2museum.org

 

[Mirai]

you can just go to the CIAs own website for their inconvenient cold war allies....

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/STUDIES%20IN%20INTELLIGENCE%20NAZI%20-%20RELATED%20ARTICLES_0015.pdf

As for Ukraine's history and cooperation in the holocaust.

The “Holocaust by Bullets” in Ukraine | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

The Holocaust in Ukraine represents the first phase of the Holocaust in which an estimated 1.5 million Jews were shot to death at close range in ravines, open fields, and forests.

www.nationalww2museum.org

So no proof for your claims that CIA is actually training Neo Nazis.

Russians were in Kaminski, RONA, Vlasov and other Nazi formations.

Russia was on Nazi side and Russia turned Jews over to the Nazi Germans in 1939.

Most dead in Ukraine does not mean that Ukrainians were killing them, many Jewish people lived there.

None of this has a bearing on a country which has a Jewish president where Jews have lived in peace and where Israeli volunteers are fighting on the "Nazi" side.

Cheap Russian propaganda spread by Nico, the Russian apologist.

 

[Nicodeamus]

So no proof for your claims that CIA is actually training Neo Nazis.

in the 1950s they were actual nazis, remnants of those who collaborated with the Germans. There was even a US program to resettle Nazis in America, many came from Ukraine.

on operation paperclip.

Operation Paperclip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Russians were in Kaminski, RONA, Vlasov and other Nazi formations.

Russia was on Nazi side and Russia turned Jews over to the Nazi Germans in 1939.

Most dead in Ukraine does not mean that Ukrainians were killing them, many Jewish people lived there.

None of this has a bearing on a country which has a Jewish president where Jews have lived in peace and where Israeli volunteers are fighting on the "Nazi" side.

Cheap Russian propaganda spread by Nico, the Russian apologist.

Despite a Jewish president, ukraine is the only country with Nazis paramilitaries that have free reigns on the street and a swastikas' being used by its own armed forces. Hardly insignificant. Don't forget that the majority of Germans weren't in the SS, they were just silenced about the crimes.

more on the USA training Ukrainian insurgents,

Op-Ed: The CIA has backed Ukrainian insurgents before. Let's learn from those mistakes

It may sound like a neat way to avoid 'boots on the ground' for Americans, but the bloodshed would be immense.

www.latimes.com

 

[Mirai]

Despite a Jewish president, ukraine is the only country with Nazis paramilitaries that have free reigns on the street and a swastikas' being used by its own armed forces. Hardly insignificant. Don't forget that the majority of Germans weren't in the SS, they were just silenced about the crimes.

You're exaggerating and cherry picking. So not only CIA is not training Nazis, I see your old book on the CIA site mentions some nationalist contacts in the 40-50s but there is no proof they are mass training people who follow the NSDAP ideology in the 2010s and onward. You're also conflating Ukrainian nationalists with NSDAP members.
That's sloppy and anti-intellectual.

I hope you also don't check how many NSDAP members retained their positions or were rehabilitated in West Germany and how many Vichy collaboratorss in France got off scot free.

You see I suspect you know this but you're just being disingenous. If you don't know this then I would suggest that you are again not thinking rationally because you assume any nationalist in Ukraine is bad, while in the West many people were rehabilitated who were bona fide NSDAP members previously or Vichy collaborators.You then highlight it here. The fact that Ukraine has a Jewish president, Ukrainian Jews and Israeli Jews are fighting for Ukraine and a pro-Israeli United States is assisting them makes no sense or goes to show that the majority of the larpers aren't real anti-semitic Nazis but merely anti-Russian nationalists. These larpers also don't seem to have a significant say in the government.

Secondly it doesn't matter that a few LARPERs had some rune symbols, the majority of the Ukrainian forces don't have these runes. It's focusing on a small number of outliers in a vain attempt to prove your point.

It matters that Israelis are fighting for people you describe as Neo-Nazis since they and not you are the ones who judge people based on anti-Semitism. You don't get to appropriate that for yourself. That's anti-semitism of its own. The Chief Rabbi of Moscow had to exile himself from Russia because he refused to give a blessing to the Russian war of aggression, which is more telling. Putin had to apologise for Lavrov's anti-semitism.

You do protest too much, Nico.

 

[Mirai]

more on the USA training Ukrainian insurgents,

Op-Ed: The CIA has backed Ukrainian insurgents before. Let's learn from those mistakes

It may sound like a neat way to avoid 'boots on the ground' for Americans, but the bloodshed would be immense.

www.latimes.com

Feb. 25, 2022 3 AM PT

Well that article aged well. Not only was the training very good, the Ukrainians were able to send their women and children abroad and are receiving strong support all the while Russia is being busted by sanctions.

 

[Mirai]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534232104824975360

If Ukraine was run or significantly staffed by nazis, it would surely have been not much of a problem for the Chief Rabbi to say so or approve this war even to say some words of support.

Alas.... nope.

 

[Nicodeamus]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534232104824975360

If Ukraine was run or significantly staffed by nazis, it would surely have been not much of a problem for the Chief Rabbi to say so or approve this war even to say some words of support.

Alas.... nope.

that doesn't say much, cathodic church had deep collaboration with the Nazis and Israel even funded AZOV.

Rights groups demand Israel stop arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine

***

www.haaretz.com

and yes the Ukrainian Nationalists do honor Nazis collaborators.

During World War II, Bandera headed the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists-B, a radical paramilitary movement that sought to transform Ukraine into a racially pure state. OUN-B took part in the expulsion and extermination of thousands of Jews and Poles.

Though most of the Maidan protesters in 2013-14 appeared motivated by anger over political corruption and by a desire to join the European Union, neo-Nazis made up a significant number and surged to the front during the seizure of government buildings and the climatic clashes with police.


Stepan Bandera, Ukrainian ultra-nationalist and Nazi collaborator.

In the days after the Feb. 22 coup, as the neo-Nazi militias effectively controlled the government, European and U.S. diplomats scrambled to help the shaken parliament put together the semblance of a respectable regime, although at least four ministries, including national security, were awarded to the right-wing extremists in recognition of their crucial role in ousting Yanukovych.

As extraordinary as it was for a modern European state to hand ministries over to neo-Nazis, virtually the entire U.S. news media cooperated in playing down the neo-Nazi role. Stories in the U.S. media delicately step around this neo-Nazi reality by keeping out relevant context, such as the background of coup regime’s national security chief Andriy Parubiy, who founded the Social-National Party of Ukraine in 1991, blending radical Ukrainian nationalism with neo-Nazi symbols. Parubiy was commandant of the Maidan’s “self-defense forces.

ROBERT PARRY: When Western Media Saw Ukraine's Neo-Nazis

Emmanuel Macron said in a speech Wednesday it's a lie that Russia is fighting Nazis in Ukraine. But in 2014, the BBC, the NYT, the Daily Telegraph and CNN -- not just CN -- reported on the Nazi threat. NYT Discovers Ukraine's Neo-Nazis at War Exclusive: Throughout the Ukraine crisis, the U.S. Sta

consortiumnews.com