SA’s black population considering emigration — survey

Neptuner

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
2,898
BBBEE has been the single most destructive act passed. It has destroyed the objectivity of Ownership, Management Control, Employment Equity, Skills Development, Preferential Procurement, Enterprise Development and Social-Economic Development within every industry of South Africa. State institutions and SOC's have been hijacked as a result of this act, to the point that sustainable institutions and SOC's have become liabilities. The very institutions which are suppose harness and bring stability to the economy.
So they're running away from BBBEE according to you?
They are running away from the negative effects thereof
The very legislation that's giving them a huge advantage according to some here?
It has "advantaged" the black person by burdening the taxpayer, many institutions and SOC's are in tatters... clearly unsustainable.
So, somehow you agree BBBEE benefits the connected (including connected whites) and not the average nonaffiliated populace?
This question comes across as if you reasoning without experience or appreciation of the subject... the white connection, maybe.. but one could argue a white lawyer was part of the team who drafted the act in discussion. It's irrelevant...
 

Quicks

Expert Member
Joined
May 29, 2017
Messages
3,154
BBBEE has been the single most destructive act passed. It has destroyed the objectivity of Ownership, Management Control, Employment Equity, Skills Development, Preferential Procurement, Enterprise Development and Social-Economic Development within every industry of South Africa. State institutions and SOC's have been hijacked as a result of this act, to the point that sustainable institutions and SOC's have become liabilities. The very institutions which are suppose harness and bring stability to the economy.

They are running away from the negative effects thereof

It has "advantaged" the black person by burdening the taxpayer, many institutions and SOC's are in tatters... clearly unsustainable.

This question comes across as if you reasoning without experience or appreciation of the subject... the white connection, maybe.. but one could argue a white lawyer was part of the team who drafted the act in discussion. It's irrelevant...

ANC: We need more BEE

Solution would be send ALL blacks to Africa, and ALL whites to western countries to sort out their own crap. Let's see who survives..
 

ForceFate

Honorary Master
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
41,138
BBBEE has been the single most destructive act passed. It has destroyed the objectivity of Ownership, Management Control, Employment Equity, Skills Development, Preferential Procurement, Enterprise Development and Social-Economic Development within every industry of South Africa. State institutions and SOC's have been hijacked as a result of this act, to the point that sustainable institutions and SOC's have become liabilities. The very institutions which are suppose harness and bring stability to the economy.
Some points make a bit of sense.
They are running away from the negative effects thereof

It has "advantaged" the black person by burdening the taxpayer, many institutions and SOC's are in tatters... clearly unsustainable.
Is it not corruption perhaps? Corruption and BBBEE are separate concepts. State entities have been destroyed by rampant corruption and wilful mismanagement where handpicked individuals are thrust into positions to make sure certain nefarious objectives are reached. Look at SAA under JZ, where Myeni was thrust into position of power despite her shortcomings. Do you think if they wanted a black person to head the airline they wouldn't have selected an educated person from within the corporate office?

Look at what they did to Denel. Do you think an ethical black manager drawn from the pool in the private sector would have allowed what happened? Eskom. It was free for all. Some of the CEO's even awarded families tenders worth hundreds of millions.
This question comes across as if you reasoning without experience or appreciation of the subject... the white connection, maybe.. but one could argue a white lawyer was part of the team who drafted the act in discussion. It's irrelevant...
Bosasa scandal. Transnet. To name but a few. The recent PPE scandals? Come on.
 

Corelli

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,661
This is ironic for me.

So European countries embrace people from Africa wanting to flee there

But the descendants of Europeans are not welcome and should pretty much stuff off.

I call it irony.

Not upset just have noticed this.

Soon Europe will be African and Africa will be European
 

TheChamp

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
57,358
This is ironic for me.

So European countries embrace people from Africa wanting to flee there

But the descendants of Europeans are not welcome and should pretty much stuff off.

I call it irony.

Not upset just have noticed this.

Soon Europe will be African and Africa will be European
Where did you see any embracing?
 

ForceFate

Honorary Master
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
41,138
This is ironic for me.

So European countries embrace people from Africa wanting to flee there

But the descendants of Europeans are not welcome and should pretty much stuff off.
Which country has such a policy? Lot of European countries have a huge sway of local policies of African countries. Technically they're vassal states.
I call it irony.

Not upset just have noticed this.

Soon Europe will be African and Africa will be European
You seem to have forgotten about colonisation. Africa os pretty much Europe. I'm surprised you'd mind Europe being Africa.
 

Howdy

Expert Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
4,830
Some points make a bit of sense.

Is it not corruption perhaps? Corruption and BBBEE are separate concepts. State entities have been destroyed by rampant corruption and wilful mismanagement where handpicked individuals are thrust into positions to make sure certain nefarious objectives are reached. Look at SAA under JZ, where Myeni was thrust into position of power despite her shortcomings. Do you think if they wanted a black person to head the airline they wouldn't have selected an educated person from within the corporate office?

Look at what they did to Denel. Do you think an ethical black manager drawn from the pool in the private sector would have allowed what happened? Eskom. It was free for all. Some of the CEO's even awarded families tenders worth hundreds of millions.

Bosasa scandal. Transnet. To name but a few. The recent PPE scandals? Come on.
Sorry for being late to the convo. Blame the crown jewel of BEE - the ANC wanted power, then they got power and now nobody has power.

Why, despite corruption having been a natural state of the human condition, did Eskom succeed, SASOL, SAPO, etc despite being SOEs? Was it not perhaps that the apartheid govt understood it's importance, kept their grubby paws out of it, but people were also more accountable. The ANC came along with it's toxic ideology that infects everything today, that which has destroyed, sees people dying in various ways, with corruption and crime at an all time high.

BEE is at the core of this ideology, redistribution rather than wealth creation. The redistributor of wealth is extremely inefficient, taking a cut each time, the govt under the ANC banner. Enter comrade deployment. Enter unsustainable social programs. After a few rounds, that full pie is not even a mouthful. Then we take taxes each time as well at unsustainable rates. It disincentives a certain part of the population, causing them to not produce. Witht he last election we heard it from the mouth of a voter walking through sewarge in the street; he'll vote ANC again because he gets his grant.

Had we implemented a wealth creation policies, Sipho would not have taken John's R100 (- 15% VAT - 30% TAX - 10% ANC redistribution gratuity called BEE). Instead John would continue producing, Sipho and would start producing and in a healthy economy, produce at a higher rate than the percentages (which is already too high), flourish. John's business would not be destroyed, see his staff get employed by Sipho (less X percentage due to redistribution shrinkage), John and Sipho would both employ. Hey, I've just discovered the reason for unemployment ... not really, but with current common sense at an all time low, some might buy it.

Then of course, we throw in a few extra B's, BBBEE and gets us that old chestnut that is never really implemented. Yes, you can take the custodians to court, the courts are accessible to all, but not free. The custodians are typically govt departments quite willing to drain and destroy you financially, literally fighting you with your own money. Not because it's the right thing to do, but to defend a toxic ideology that fills teh trough, feeds the corrupt. So how do we solve this problem? Groups like Afriforum? Hell has no fury like a corrupt politician scorned, suddenly Afriforum becomes racists with the likes of forum hero Fence Jumper Paddatjie leading the charge, the stay behind advantaged blindly echoing the BS, voting for more and hoping for a turn at the trough - it's their right.

Then we wonder why our economy is in tatters? We wonder why racism flares up regularly? The population of South Africa is under severe stress, acting like dogs in a small space.

Yet the ANC clings onto that which fills their trough, BEE and comrade redeployment.

Some sane people of all races gtfo at the first chance, rather taking their chances elsewhere. Some sane stay behind because they actually really love South Africa, despite hating what is being done to it.
 

Howdy

Expert Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
4,830
Which country has such a policy? Lot of European countries have a huge sway of local policies of African countries. Technically they're vassal states.

You seem to have forgotten about colonisation. Africa os pretty much Europe. I'm surprised you'd mind Europe being Africa.
Beam me up Scotty, Earth is fscked is these are the though processes
 

RiaX

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
7,211
Is it not corruption perhaps? Corruption and BBBEE are separate concepts

They are seperate concepts in theory but are they really divorced from each other ? It allows cadre deployment. It allows incompetence to go where it should not.

Corruption is not always stealing millions or billions of rands. Corruption can be laziness to do a job probably which interrupts the cash flow of the state owned entity.

I'll give you a real example. In state hospitals you get billed according to your earnings, they classify you one of three categories H0 H1 and H2. Its a sliding scale determining how much you must pay the hospital to get treatment. Now if your admin clarks are too lazy to action this then the hospital is not making any money and is forced to draw extra funding from the department to sustain itself. Obviously these hospitals are not designed to make a profit however because people know these systems are not functioning they abuse the system and people who are supposed to be paying are not. The system gets over burdened and collapses.

Maybe sit at a cash flow meeting or an interview panel for a state facility then you will see.
 
Last edited:

rh1

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
7,310
They are seperate concepts in theory but are they really divorced from each other ? It allows cadre deployment. It allows incompetence to go where it should not.

Corruption is not always stealing millions or billions of rands. Corruption can be laziness to do a job probably which interrupts the cash flow of the state owned entity.

I'll give you a real example. In state hospitals you get billed according to your earnings, they classify you one of three categories H0 H1 and H2. Its a sliding scale determining how much you must pay the hospital to get treatment. Now if your admin clarks are too lazy to action this then the hospital is not making any money and is forced to draw extra funding from the department to sustain itself. Obviously these hospitals are not designed to make a profit however because people know these systems are not functioning they abuse the system and people who are supposed to be paying are not. The system gets over burdened and collapses.

Maybe sit at a cash flow meeting or an interview panel for a state facility then you will see.
Disagree 100%. If I pay taxes, you want me to pay government more money for the same service. Thats Socialism 101.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ES1
Top