SA could build nuclear plants without government funding

Brenden_E

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We have no need to go nuclear. Best place in the world for solar - let's use it!
 

skeptic_SA

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They couldn't even built the president a swimming pool without government funding. We want these @$$h0l'es in charge of MORE nuclear? Not I.
 

The_Unbeliever

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naaah, they will need to do shady and dodgy contracts and deals in order to procure more money for their nasty pocketses...
 

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
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We have no need to go nuclear. Best place in the world for solar - let's use it!

We need baseload, which is something that Solar is not that great for just yet as far as I know, at least not in the quantities we need.

and I thought we were only the second best place in the world for solar?
 

greg_SA

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We have no need to go nuclear. Best place in the world for solar - let's use it!

The problem is that solar systems only generate energy during the daylight hours. So it will need to be stored for the morning and evening peaks.

I hope that CSP towers become a viable (cost effective) option with thermal storage. But I don't think anyone has built systems like this on a big scale yet. The Ivanpah plant is ~ 400 MW, but doesn't have storage :( The Abengoa plant is 280 MW and does have storage :) But I think this is all pretty new technology.
 
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itareanlnotani

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You can easily reduce the morning and evening peaks by fiscal means.

Charge appropriately, and business and home users will change their load usage.
What we need is more large scale storage, and more generation capacity (whether wind or solar or csp)

Other countries are finding that 20% solar or wind is not a problem in a mixed grid. Given we have about <1% solar, we're fine to add another few tens of GW worth.

Eskom needs to invest in transmission, like it promised. There are still Solar Plants sitting waiting for connections that could be generating..
Its likely that they're dithering on that, as they don't want to pay the per KW fee's negotiated for the power generated, especially when one reads between the lines. Sad, when they'd rather spend on BEE diesel or BEE coal for "unknown" reasons that are completely not related to lining government connected pockets at all, no way siree bob.
 

Chris.Geerdts

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Unfortunately Rosatom seems to have 'bought off' 6 of our journalists (or at least some of them) with a sponsored visit. It's good that they are seeing for themselves, but overall it seems like a good PR win for the russian supplier
 

Big Bean

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One of the ways in which they could actually make solar more viable is actually implementing a separate time zone in the country (north and south). This would distribute some of the load and reduce the peak.
 

Hemi300c

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It's all about the gravy.
Solar and wind farms could feed back into the system.
The cANCer is looking for the years ahead and how they can fund their lavish lifestyle.
Everything they propose has to do with huge amounts and funding.
E-Toll's are a perfect example, why did they go for funding this overseas instead of local and using fuel levy etc. It's quick and easy and money upfront with hidden profits.

I don't trust this government one bit and they are all professional fraudsters in it for their own gain.
 

HavocXphere

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If South Africa chooses to use Rosatom as its main supplier, almost 100% of the cost could be funded in the rouble, the source said.
You have got to be kidding me.

Taking on that much debt is pretty ambitious...but denominating that debt in a foreign currency that isn't even stable is the equivalent of betting the country on a roll of the dice. SA has like 1.7 trillion debt...of which ~90% is ZAR denominated. Adding a trillion of Rouble denominated debt on top of that....good luck with...
 

itareanlnotani

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This wanders all over the place, but bear with me.

Per KW Nuclear is more expensive than coal when actual costs are looked at; instead of the it will only cost "R1 billion", vs R3 billion actual its likely to be. Nuclear is less polluting than coal, sure, but the long term safety aspects are horrendous.

Neither are good solutions, although Nuclear is slightly less of a concern than coal is.

Solar and Wind are increasingly becoming no brainers - the price per KW is cheap, and getting cheaper. Wind is already cheaper than coal, and it doesn't have the massive damage to the environment that Coal does, or the pollution.

Polluting the planet by burning coal is going to get excessively more expensive as carbon taxes become more of a reality on a global scale (instead of a cheap scam to sell credits like it is now).

Storage at a grid scale is an issue, but that can be dealt with fairly easily on an economic basis. Heck, Eskom doesn't even need to fund it.
Encourage Solar users to add storage, and allow feed back into the grid. Or mandate generation + storage in the REIPPP bids. This has been done oversea's, and works.

Currently we use Diesel to run Gas Turbines - that provide 2444MW of power. Replacing that with solar and wind would be a good start.
Adding more large scale storage (hydro), and investing in transmission infrastructure is needed, not Nuclear.

We can add another 10GW of renewables into our current system without too much issue. Right now we have a little over 2GW installed, and slightly less generating, as Eskom can't be bothered to build the transmission infrastructure they promised.

They keep talking about "base load". There is no such thing as base load per se.
Base load just refers to how much generating capacity you keep running regardless of whether you need it or not.
All infrastructure has latency (time needed to power up and provide power).

Nuclear power plants can't ramp up and down to cater for need quickly.
They are also horrible at doing that, as much of the cost is in the capital costs, running costs are "relatively" low, so, for the most part, they're run at 100% usage, as financially its stupid to do it any other way.

Coal stations are similar beasts. They also don't ramp up and down very well.
Renewables on the other hand can provide lots of power fairly cheaply, although output can be variable, which is why storage is a must.

Having too much generation in 2 Nuclear power plants leads to all eggs in one basket syndrome, its better to have a mix of smaller distributed generation than large scale monolithic ones.

Its better to have 50 wind farms, rather than 1 monolithic Nuclear plant. Both will supply the same amount of power, and the Wind farms will be more stable, especially when distributed over the country.

The naysayers amongst you will go - but Wind provides 30% of nameplate on average. So? Build more Wind farms, its still far cheaper to overload on Wind than to build Nuclear. Wind and Solar are fairly predictable, as is Hydro.

Excess capacity when the wind is blowing can be sent to storage, or time insensitive applications - water desalination is one biggie that comes to mind.

Thats why we have a mix of generation, and why we have "base load". The inflexibility of existing coal and nuclear stations to ramp up and down to follow demand, together with storage capacity (or lack thereof) is the issue, not "base load".

The solution isn't to hope that it will go away if you ignore it, the solution is to invest in storage and transmission.

Even battery technology on industrial scale is almost there - flow batteries are coming of age finally, and trickling into the market.

Those that will go on about the "daily peak" should realise that thats also an easily solvable solution. The daily peak at 7pm is due to cooking. All Eskom / Government needs to do for that is either subsidise gas installs, or make electricity price sensitive around those points, and people will gladly move to more efficient cooking methods. Same for heating water, Geysers make for a perfect solution in most of the country. Short term thinking together with BEE kickbacks have led to the Geyser subsidy program being cancelled.
Follow the money there and you can see why - it BEEhoves one to see who sells the Diesel and the Coal...
 
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