SA faces tax increase as SARS battles to raise revenue

vigras rojara

Senior Member
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Dec 28, 2016
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938
#81
Haven't really had the time to read all these intellectual posts, but I think I get the gist.

The irony is that I was at the MyBroadband conference today, and it seemed to be the biggest ever. Even some new exhibitors, and the place was packed. No empty stands.

So it seems that many companies are still willing and able to push money into marketing, which is the first area to be cut when times are tough.

Any how ironic that this forum is doing its utmost to prove that we're all doomed, when the conference seems to prove the opposite.
 

Visser

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Apr 13, 2010
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1,532
#82
Haven't really had the time to read all these intellectual posts, but I think I get the gist.

The irony is that I was at the MyBroadband conference today, and it seemed to be the biggest ever. Even some new exhibitors, and the place was packed. No empty stands.

So it seems that many companies are still willing and able to push money into marketing, which is the first area to be cut when times are tough.

Any how ironic that this forum is doing its utmost to prove that we're all doomed, when the conference seems to prove the opposite.
Wow! Basing the economy on a MyBroadband conference. Just Wow!

You should rather have read the comments first.
 

2012

Executive Member
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Jan 22, 2012
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8,164
#83
Except of course that is not the whole picture, but it doesn't suit your world view.... Yes the smaller boys are scaling back or closing, medium sized and larger companies are generally holding steady.
What I've seen is that the average amount spent at a store is decreasing at the small/medium sized companies.

With the vat increase as well as other increases, people need to some how pay the bills that matter, and this leads to less spending at the small guys.

It's been a slow bleed out for the small guys since the end of 2015 (if the numbers are to believed) and you can see it. Less stock items, or shops closing down/moving to smaller locations. Less staff too.

Not a very healthy economy really.
 

ɹǝuuᴉM

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Dec 6, 2015
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2,006
#86
So what happened to reducing the bloated cabinet? They could surely raise more money from there than any VAT/tax increase...
Not only reducing but also cut their salaries to about 1/10! At least than they will earn the world's average. At the moment they earn 45x instead of 5-6 times the local minimum wage. South Africans work for their parliamentarians instead of the other way around.
 

Milano

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Feb 7, 2004
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10,345
#87
What I've seen is that the average amount spent at a store is decreasing at the small/medium sized companies.

With the vat increase as well as other increases, people need to some how pay the bills that matter, and this leads to less spending at the small guys.

It's been a slow bleed out for the small guys since the end of 2015 (if the numbers are to believed) and you can see it. Less stock items, or shops closing down/moving to smaller locations. Less staff too.

Not a very healthy economy really.
Not just SME's you can look at big companies too like Shoprite and Makro come to mind. You do not get the worst local economy since 1945 without almost every company feeling it, big or small.
 

ToxicBunny

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Apr 8, 2006
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72,436
#88
What I've seen is that the average amount spent at a store is decreasing at the small/medium sized companies.

With the vat increase as well as other increases, people need to some how pay the bills that matter, and this leads to less spending at the small guys.

It's been a slow bleed out for the small guys since the end of 2015 (if the numbers are to believed) and you can see it. Less stock items, or shops closing down/moving to smaller locations. Less staff too.

Not a very healthy economy really.
Agreed... It's not good at all.. But vissers opinion is by and large exteme and wrong.
 

Milano

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#89
It's scary.
I have no place to go.
Can these fucckers stop fuccking up the country stop race politics.
You had best apply your mind and get your stuff in order as there are various options which look substantially better than the direction we are headed.
 

vigras rojara

Senior Member
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Dec 28, 2016
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938
#90
Will do. I prefer to face the truth rather than standing with my head buried in the sand hiding from or ignoring it.
Ja ja. The rest of us will keep on building businesses.

Quite surprised that the ANC has allowed you WiFi in your Pretoria West squatter camp.
 

AstroTurf

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May 13, 2010
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26,370
#91
What happened to all of the politically connected individuals that haven't paid tax? I don't have high hopes for Cyril Ramaphosa to be honest.He hasn't done enough to eradicate the rot.

Can you imagine what will happen to SA if Cyril Ramaphosa is eventually pushed out & DD Mabuza is our next president. We can't handle another state capture, Zuma situation.

I think it is time the SA public and OUTA drags the government to court. It has become the only way to run this country.
Cyril is standing on a rotten plank 500 meters above the pavement trying to get rid of the rot without the plank losing structural integrity. Problem is he needs to get off the plank and just kick it over the edge but if he does he loses his plank.
 

Corelli

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Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
528
#92
60 percent of SA is on welfare so they dont contribute to the tax base. And 17% of the population pays 85% of the income tax. Then there is corporate tax and with the hikes in water and electricity they have to find other way to cut costs. So they harvest water (ie councils loose money) and install solar arays (eskom looses money). Add to this all the corruption and you will find only the buddies score with consultancy fees (because they dont believe an employee that tells them where to cut costs, but only a consultant that charges 20x more).

So with taxes, fuel, medical aid, electricity and rates skyhigh, let alone the prospects of nationalisation. You find the middle class will think twice about investing or spending and as such even takeaways are suffering a 20% loss in revenue. Insurance companies will also suffer (do you really need to insure things like a couch from being stolen- i think not). So financial companies are in trouble. Also your bank savings is a loan to the bank in the way they lend you money. If they fold you are lucky to get anything back.

So middle class suffers and the wiser ones look abroad, who are only to take on south africans as they are hard workers and will work to survive and not milk social services.

To really see this. Look at the growth rate of the white population. Its actually negative growth due to emigration.

So as the 17% leaves the government needs to find other avenues to give welfare to the 60% that wont be able to go abroad. Because if youre on welfare it means you will not be able to emigrate.

All that can be done is to keep raising taxes. Upto the point where more and more emigrate which is why emigration is this year the highest its ever been. And government is bad at tracking emigration.

Eventually the country will collapse in civil war due to the pressure to survive whats left.

Its going to keep getting worse. So sell ure heavy fuel car and buy a reliable cheapy. Live within your means and cut what you dont need.

Ie switch your lights to osram led (makro cheapest)
Use rainwater harvesting for toilets and gardening.
Go more fuel efficient car or do lift.clubs
Cut down on power hungry appliances

Start creating a get out of Vegas quick fund if it gets worse. Move money abroad.
 

kim_bcs

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Company Rep
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Jan 14, 2011
Messages
142
#93
Regarding the tax rate increasing and becoming more like countries further north and taking that to be a reference to living in the Scandinavian countries, I thought I would add my experience. We moved to Norway three years ago and we have been paying less income tax here than we did in SA. We also get a lot more from our income tax, but that is a different discussion.
 

daveza

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
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33,095
#94
Halve the German car budget, the furnishings budget and stop the alcohol and food budget completely.

Make every govt employee travel economy.

Stop paying for govt medical aid - use your own free hospitals.

Then there's this -

https://www.health24.com/News/Publi...ermining-south-africas-health-system-20180417

Last year it was reported that Gauteng Health Department alone had paid out at least R1 billion in lawsuits since January 2015, while the Eastern Cape is facing payouts of R14 billion.
 

Mila

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Nov 11, 2008
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49,785
#95
You had best apply your mind and get your stuff in order as there are various options which look substantially better than the direction we are headed.
And my parents? And my animals?

Besides that I'm in no position to just get stuff in order and leave. There isn't a country in the world that would just take me my parents my mother in law with cancer and chemo (and this has been going on for 10 years and she is healthy again but will have cancer and chemo again in the next two years), all my animals and say come see if you can set up your business here and make it work.

So arrogant of people to think that because I have a paid car and live in a moderate house that I can afford, I have means and skills to just pick up and leave.
 

Nod

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2005
Messages
8,586
#97
You do know the effective tax rate in e.g. Germany is 45% if you earn more than about 250 000 EUR year, or 500 000 EUR when married? Our 45% bracket starts at ~91 000 EUR a year. Most of us who are doing skilled labor will probably end up paying less taxes if we move over while getting more benefits out of it.

Is for singles, yes 2010, but don't think it's changed much since then.


You can't keep increasing the tax rate without getting anything back out of it.
Just had the tax discussion with my German colleagues today.

Single guy pays 40%.
Our boss pays effective 20% because of "Kindergeld" and also "Elterngeld".
I paid around 30% when I lived there as my wife was not working.
Expenses are much less in Germany.
Would go back if given the opportunity.
 

Jola

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Sep 22, 2005
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#98
Just had the tax discussion with my German colleagues today.

Single guy pays 40%.
Our boss pays effective 20% because of "Kindergeld" and also "Elterngeld".
I paid around 30% when I lived there as my wife was not working.
Expenses are much less in Germany.
Would go back if given the opportunity.
Yip, taxes are way too high here, this is going to ruin the country.
 

Peon

Expert Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
2,476
#99
And my parents? And my animals?

Besides that I'm in no position to just get stuff in order and leave. There isn't a country in the world that would just take me my parents my mother in law with cancer and chemo (and this has been going on for 10 years and she is healthy again but will have cancer and chemo again in the next two years), all my animals and say come see if you can set up your business here and make it work.

So arrogant of people to think that because I have a paid car and live in a moderate house that I can afford, I have means and skills to just pick up and leave.
This is my issue as well. I wish it was simpler, but its not.
 

ambroseg1

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Jul 15, 2008
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8,058
I never even thought about Panama. Only heard about the permanent residency last year after someone told me how many thousands of South Africans got permanent residency there last year alone, how easy and cheap it was to get it.

I took the chance and did it and also obtained permanent residency card.

In the process I learnt a lot about Panama myself. I was surprised with how progressive they are, how modern Panama City is and how beautiful the country itself is, hence the reason I decided to buy a property there too.

Over and above this, living costs are extremely cheap there. I rented a 4-bedroom house for US$450 a month. My water and electricity bill for a family of 5 worked to about US$60 per month. I had an unlimited data line, which cost me US$23 a month. All my groceries, including cold drinks, milk, bread & meat for every day, and everything else we needed for a family of 5 worked out to about US$650 a month. Petrol was cheap at around US0.88c per liter. If I remember correctly, it cost me around US$50 to fill a 60l tank. So, I generate around US$4,000 via my online ventures and a move like this makes absolute sense for me, since I will no longer be taxed on my income when I move there on a permanent basis.
This ^ is seriously great information. Thank you.
 
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