SA heading for junk downgrade, rating forecaster says

Sneeky

Honorary Master
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May 5, 2004
Messages
11,431
Junk rate status won't have such a huge impact as some think. South Africa has been doing bad for the last few years now. Ramaphosa worsened the situation. He is not a good leader. Malema is better but his ideology is ...
That next downgrade will have a massive effect on companies operating in SA that have to buy offshore in terms of raw materials and credit terms.
Industry has been dying and about to accelerate the pace.
You have the ANC going to coal producers right now telling them it is their fault and they need to relax pricing cause Eskom is a stuff up. Eskom is a stuff up why = ANC.
No retrenchments or interventions at Eskom or other SOE's. Just bailouts, sucking the last juice out of this country.
Industries that enjoy 60 day terms on imported raw materials will be asked to pay up front having a massive impact on the value of their businesses and working capital.
 

Knyro

PhD in Everything
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
29,491
Let's say certain methodologies and tools. One being Ansar. That was in 95. Sales people hated it, techies loved it.

How about complex disk configuration portability despite a major vendor refusing to divulge source code to give them a better product. It later made it's way into the vendor's portfolio. No reward was ever sought. It was done for all. Reward was incidental after they zicked my code and I caught them in the act; an engineer contacted me asking me for support, what was the reason I had done something. He did not know they had zicked it and were commercializing it. Was fun to watch a corporation squirm.

Working with other parties that are today known as the founding fathers of certain things, something you use every day to keep you safe. Even now there is a massive fight going on between the clueless newer generation whizz kids and some of the older knowledgeable sages that made many mistakes, fixed them and established why certain things work as they do ... until recently. The new young SJW kool-aid drinking crew knows better, breaking things they don't know exists.

In the past ten years signalling of preservation of data across jurisdictions in a way that bypasses political interference, meets regulatory requirements, allowing people who keep you safer to gain access to actionable information.

M$ also had a go with something else and were frustrated. Fun fact for you: M$ had a war kitty to defend/settle ito stolen ideas that made them big, it was part of their growth model.

So yes, I did invent methods of getting things done. More than a bit made it's way into stuff in small ways you can never appreciate. Am I proudly putting my name it? Why not? Catch a clue. Thousands of people like me allow you to type today on your keyboard to argue about things. Just watch out for the cool-aid ...

Toemaar boetie, jy moet nog die foute maak wat ek al gemaak het - en van geleer het. :sneaky:
Sounds like you're a developer that developed stuff. Nothing there is particularly novel enough to warrant being called an invention. Or maybe my standards are too high from reading applied/theoretical physics journals on the daily that make what you do look like snapping legos together.

But keep patting yourself on the back.
 
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Sollie

Executive Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
8,221
Sounds like you're a developer that developed stuff. Nothing there is particularly novel enough to warrant being called an invention. Or maybe my standards are too high from reading applied/theoretical physics journals on the daily that make what you do look like snapping legos together.

But keep patting yourself of on the back.
Oh your mighty highness - no I'm not a developer. That is just a tool to get the job done and a small part of it. I left that part behind some 30 years ago. But anyway ... let me continue doing what I do so that your highness can read his physics journals on the daily. :)

Btw: What has your highness invented?
 

Knyro

PhD in Everything
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
29,491
Oh your mighty highness - no I'm not a developer. That is just a tool to get the job done and a small part of it. I left that part behind some 30 years ago. But anyway ... let me continue doing what I do so that your highness can read his physics journals on the daily. :)

Btw: What has your highness invented?
Nothing. But then I don't go claiming to have invented civilization as we know it do I?

That's why I read physics journals on the daily, to polish my skills to the point where I'll be able to contribute something truly novel. Unlike the derivative stuff you think are inventions.

Preservation of data so it meets regulations? Really? Pfft. Come talk to me after you make a breakthrough in plasma confinement in tokamaks.
 

Moi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
453
SA heading for junk downgrade, rating forecaster says

Now my dick's gonna be even smaller, eish.
 

Johnatan56

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
27,358
That next downgrade will have a massive effect on companies operating in SA that have to buy offshore in terms of raw materials and credit terms.
Industry has been dying and about to accelerate the pace.
You have the ANC going to coal producers right now telling them it is their fault and they need to relax pricing cause Eskom is a stuff up. Eskom is a stuff up why = ANC.
No retrenchments or interventions at Eskom or other SOE's. Just bailouts, sucking the last juice out of this country.
Industries that enjoy 60 day terms on imported raw materials will be asked to pay up front having a massive impact on the value of their businesses and working capital.
Well, a lot of those coal contracts are inflated due to tenders, but should rather be investigation into coal irregularities and claiming back the costs and reducing, rather than asking everyone to reduce.
 

Sollie

Executive Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
8,221
Nothing. But then I don't go claiming to have invented civilization as we know it do I?

That's why I read physics journals on the daily, to polish my skills to the point where I'll be able to contribute something truly novel. Unlike the derivative stuff you think are inventions.

Preservation of data so it meets regulations? Really? Pfft. Come talk to me after you make a breakthrough in plasma confinement in tokamaks.
Gotcha, your highness. So it's a bit like rugby? The best players sit in the pavilions?

Anyway, were did I claim I invented civilization? You jumped in to rescue a friend that's forever stirring with a passport in his back pocket, also chirping about something he read or heard about, yet avoiding an obvious question - worse than JZ is trying to avoid that day in court he initially asked for. Yet when the **** he helps stirs finally explodes, he'll be on the first plane back home.

Anyway, come talk to me after your highness's journals, and in anticipation of all the great work you'll do with your plasma transformer, ends up at Ɛ<1 (catcha hint - developer? 2nd yr physics - en nogal in Afrikaans. Dankie Prof Thom. LOL)

Preservation of data is actually very important in ways you obviously have not even begun to understand, so I respectfully suggest there is a bit of work ahead for you your highness. It needs tech, it needs process design, it needs policies, it needs legal etc ... and a lot of common sense. So back to the books and off the forums. Now fall off your high horse and go study reality .
 
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Jopie Fourie

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Aug 30, 2019
Messages
2,251
South Africa will not be downgraded to junk, simply because it is not junk. Yes, a few minor issues we can fix by working all together and get the honey pouring again.
 

Swa

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Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
25,228
We're not junk status. We're k*k status. Why they can't realise this I don't know. Objectively I wouldn't invest here.
 

Kelerei

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Jun 29, 2009
Messages
1,170
So they just changed us from stable to negative. No junk yet and there's unlikely to be any review until next budget in Feb 2020.

I was expecting this outcome, and it seems most economists were doing likewise. Nowadays, it's not common to downgrade without first changing the outlook to negative (unless an economy tanks Zimbabwe/Venezuela/Greece style). There was an article on the Daily Maverick explaining the consequences of ratings agencies doing ad-hoc downgrades at will and why this is tightly regulated nowadays (short story: Moodys exacerbated the Icelandic banking meltdown in 2007/2008), which is well worth the read for those interested.

This will put investors on notice, and one would hope would also put the government on notice (though whether the government will heed, or be able to do anything about what effectively is a final warning, is another story).

To reuse what's pretty much a MyBroadband meme, a downgrade from Moodys is now imminent, unless the government is able to reverse economic course by the time the next review comes around -- and I don't believe that this government has the political will or ability (see: ANC factional infighting) to do so.
 

reactor_sa

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Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
7,816
ANC will try the only card they can play again, expect income taxes to rocket come the Feb budget speech. If they were actually going to cut any expenditure of significance they would have done so already.
 
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BBSA

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Jul 11, 2005
Messages
14,661
"Moody's decision to change the outlook to negative from stable reflects the material risk that the government will not succeed in
arresting the deterioration of its finances..."

:crying:
 

Jopie Fourie

Expert Member
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Aug 30, 2019
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2,251
I was expecting this outcome, and it seems most economists were doing likewise. Nowadays, it's not common to downgrade without first changing the outlook to negative (unless an economy tanks Zimbabwe/Venezuela/Greece style). There was an article on the Daily Maverick explaining the consequences of ratings agencies doing ad-hoc downgrades at will and why this is tightly regulated nowadays (short story: Moodys exacerbated the Icelandic banking meltdown in 2007/2008), which is well worth the read for those interested.

This will put investors on notice, and one would hope would also put the government on notice (though whether the government will heed, or be able to do anything about what effectively is a final warning, is another story).

To reuse what's pretty much a MyBroadband meme, a downgrade from Moodys is now imminent, unless the government is able to reverse economic course by the time the next review comes around -- and I don't believe that this government has the political will or ability (see: ANC factional infighting) to do so.
Easy, they now only need to ensure that 80% or more of your salary and/or business income goes straight to taxes. Use this additional money to pay off debt, and Moody's will continue to swindle investors into believing that South Africa has a good economy and strong, honest government.
 
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