SA in new nuclear deal with Russia

Bern

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OK so we get a tiny group of people sorted out with highly specialised training, what stops them leaving SA to work in another country now that they have scarce sought after skills? Has this been addressed?

Secondly what is the international job market like for said skills, i.e. are we going to end up with a problem trying to source human capital to maintain these?

Of course there are a huge number of unanswered questions on the whole nuclear plan that this falls in to, but sticking to topic.
 

ISP cash cow

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OK so we get a tiny group of people sorted out with highly specialised training, what stops them leaving SA to work in another country now that they have scarce sought after skills? Has this been addressed?

Secondly what is the international job market like for said skills, i.e. are we going to end up with a problem trying to source human capital to maintain these?

Of course there are a huge number of unanswered questions on the whole nuclear plan that this falls in to, but sticking to topic.

Me thinks that this already shows that Russia has got the tender for the Nuclear power stations. It is probably preparation for the staff to run these stations when they are built in South Africa.

I am sure there will be a clause in the training contract that they will be employed by the state for X amount of years after receiving the training.
 

furpile

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Hopefully they will learn to read and speak Russian as well :)

On a more serious note, when the PBMR was still a thing many engineering students were trained in nuclear physics and there were post graduate courses as well (at Potch I think). Then the government decided to scrap the PBMR and all of those degrees go to waste.
 

bekdik

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With the arms deal dead, zanc needs a new trough to feed from. Fire pools have a high upkeep cost.
 

spiderkzn

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well I believe we need new nuclear power station that will stop load shedding and long term electiricity plan.
 

FNfal

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I hope Russia trains these people better than they trained the MK jet and helicopter pilots that never got to fly a helicopter of jet , but were qualified .
This is scary shyt .
 

mmacleod

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local chernobyl/fukushima coming soon...

Do you even have an idea how different the modern reactors are (even the Russian ones) to the Chernobyl one, or how many plants the Russians have run since then without incident?
Fukushima - again 1971 technology, and a TSUNAMI (do we get many of those here?), and even then how many dead? Should we compare to how many people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam get killed by dam bursts - yet I don't see people getting hysterical when there is talk of building new dams...


This knee jerk stuff is absurd.
 
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furpile

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Do you even have an idea how different the modern reactors are (even the Russian ones) to the Chernobyl one, or how many plants the Russians have run since then without incident?
Fukushima - again 1971 technology, and a TSUNAMI (do we get many of those here?), and even then how many dead? Should we compare to how many people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam get killed by dam bursts - yet I don't see people getting hysterical when there is talk of building new dams...


This knee jerk stuff is absurd.

But there is a very real risk with a nuclear power station, even the new safer technology. Look at the Three Mile Island accident, somebody decides to do something that is not according to the rules and you have a major disaster.

Nuclear plants are not a bad idea, but there was no open process to get the best deal here. Just a decision to buy Russian nuclear plants. There was no comparison between Russia, French and US (and anyone alse) in terms of cost, safety, etc.
 

mmacleod

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Look at the Three Mile Island accident

Which again happened in 1979, there is a recurring theme here, in the 70s and 80s nuclear energy was relatively new (as were computers for instance).
Have a look at the world and look how much technology has changed since then, you have to admit its a little absurd to use 40 year old technology as a yard stick? Would you talk about what is/isn't possible in computing based on some problems that happened on 1970's computers?


somebody decides to do something that is not according to the rules and you have a major disaster.
Sure, just like with the dam example (look at the death toll) or any other number of technologies if things go wrong people die.

However modern nuclear reactors are pretty much designed to be human proof, they have automatic fail safes on multiple levels most of which rely on closed loops (i.e. gravity and other physics) which pretty much cannot fail. While these older reactors were not, the whole meme of homer simpson slipping and blowing up a nuclear power station is out of date now and completely unrealistic.


Nuclear plants are not a bad idea, but there was no open process to get the best deal here. Just a decision to buy Russian nuclear plants. There was no comparison between Russia, French and US (and anyone alse) in terms of cost, safety, etc.
Sure, and I am equally as annoyed by that, I would like more transparency as well, I'm not even sure nuclear is the best option right now, which is sad because I'm actually a 'fan' of nuclear.
That still doesn't make knee jerk 'omgz chernobyl!' stuff any less wrong/pathetic though, these are two entirely separate issues.
If this deal goes ahead will there be corruption and lots of money stolen, almost certainly, will we all be glowing green from radiation, almost certainly not.
 

agel

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Be that as it may, I still don't trust the SA Gov to put competent people there; fail safes do fail and that's what people are there for, but if they have no clue...
 

JStrike

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That is good to hear. More people with specialised skills is exactly what SA needs
 

JStrike

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Nuclear plants are not a bad idea, but there was no open process to get the best deal here. Just a decision to buy Russian nuclear plants. There was no comparison between Russia, French and US (and anyone alse) in terms of cost, safety, etc.

Where are you getting that from? There most certainly is a process, due to kick off later this year. Russa, France, China etc are all taking part. However Russia is certainly looking like the frontrunner due to their fund, build and operate structure. Essentially an IPP
 
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ToxicBunny

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Where are you getting that from? There most certainly is a process, due to kick off later this year. Russa, France, China etc are all taking part

And to conclude in 6 months?

A tender/bidding process of this magnitude does not open and close in a 6 month period.
 

furpile

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Where are you getting that from? There most certainly is a process, due to kick off later this year. Russa, France, China etc are all taking part. However Russia is certainly looking like the frontrunner due to their fund, build and operate structure. Essentially an IPP

But the government already signed a memorandum with the Russians. Does that not automatically give them a lead start?

EDIT: See this article for instance:
It creates an expectation that Russian technology will be used for South Africa’s trillion-rand fleet of new nuclear power stations. And by laying the groundwork for government-to-government contracting, it appears designed to sidestep the constitutional requirement for open and competitive tendering.

Once the agreement comes into force, the Russians will have a veto over South Africa doing business with any other nuclear vendor. And it will be binding for a minimum of 20 years, during which Russia can hold a gun to South Africa’s head, in effect saying: “Do business with us, or forget nuclear.”

Source: http://mg.co.za/article/2015-02-12-exposed-scary-details-of-secret-russian-nuke-deal
 
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