SA public to have say on next chief justice, for the first time

Fulcrum29

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Now there's 8,

  1. Judge President John Hlophe
  2. Justice Mbuyiseli Madlanga
  3. Justice Mandisa Maya
  4. Dr Wallace Amos Mgoqi
  5. Advocate Busisiwe Mkhwebane
  6. Judge President Dunstan Mlambo
  7. Advocate Alan Nelson, SC
  8. Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo

According to the Presidency, the public made 148 submissions, which consisted of 25 names.

"Some of these individuals featured in more than one submission. Of the 25 names, only eight nominations met the criteria as set out in the call by the president," the Presidency said.

All submission were "assessed and scrutinised" by the nominations panel, chaired by Judge Navanethem Pillay, the Presidency added.

...

"The panel will consider objections before submitting a shortlist of three to five names to the president. The panel is required to report to the president by Friday, 29 October 2021," the Presidency concluded.

I am curious what this criteria may be, was it ever published?
 

Fulcrum29

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From what I have read (DM) Hlope was actually a very good student and lawyer. Just a bit too crooked as a judge so he should have stayed and been an advocate; a bit more work but no problems being dishonest (a crook).

Good people can turn bad, even rotten.
 

Cosmik Debris

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How? Isn't she an advocate of the high court? Please elaborate.

Neither she nor Judge Tshiqi, who is a judge of the ConCourt, are qualified to represent clients in a court. The explanation is one of qualification which I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will be able to give. @Fulcrum29 Any answers?
 

Fulcrum29

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Neither she nor Judge Tshiqi, who is a judge of the ConCourt, are qualified to represent clients in a court. The explanation is one of qualification which I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will be able to give. @Fulcrum29 Any answers?

I am unsure to be honest, but there are real legal eagles on here, don't know where they are roosting though, but I guess they would avoid 'political' threads.
 

ponder

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Neither she nor Judge Tshiqi, who is a judge of the ConCourt, are qualified to represent clients in a court. The explanation is one of qualification which I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will be able to give. @Fulcrum29 Any answers?

How? Isn't she an advocate of the high court? Please elaborate.

Wrt Tshiqi, I speak under correction but she should be able to represent a client in a magistrate court but NOT a High Court, the Supreme Court of Appeal or the Constitutional Court. The reason for this goes back to my previous post concerning qualifications, she only holds a B.Proc degree and in order qualify to appear in the courts listed an LLB degree is a strict requirement.

She was never an advocate, she doesn't qualify as one. She was an attorney.



(3) An attorney who wishes to appear in the High Court, the Supreme Court of Appeal or the Constitutional Court must apply to the registrar of the Division of the High Court in which he or she was admitted and enrolled as an attorney for a prescribed certificate to the effect that the applicant has the right to appear in the High Court, the Supreme Court of Appeal or the Constitutional Court and which the registrar must issue if he or she is satisfied that the attorney –

(a) (i) has been practising as an attorney for a continuous period of not less than three years: Provided that this period may be reduced in accordance with rules made by the Council if the attorney has undergone a trial advocacy training programme approved by the Council as set out in the Rules;
(ii) is in possession of an LLB degree; and
(iii) has not had his or her name struck off the Roll or has not been suspended from practice or that there are no proceedings pending to strike the applicant’s name from the Roll or to suspend him or her; or
(b) has gained appropriate relevant experience, as may be prescribed by the Minister in consultation with the Council, if the attorney complies with paragraph (a) (iii).

Can I obtain right of appearance in the superior courts with a BProc degree?
No, an LLB is required
(see above), but s114(5) provides that an attorney who had the right of appearance in the superior courts on 1 November 2018, retains that right.

Wrt s114(5)

One would need to know her exact history in order to be certain where she slots in...
 
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surface

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I am curious what this criteria may be, was it ever published?
Seems quite vague tbh.


The criteria referred to above, stipulated the following:

  • A nomination letter, including the contact details of the nominator;
  • The nominee’s acceptance of the nomination and their contact details;
  • Letters of support for the nomination, including contact details of persons or entities that support the nomination, including at least one letter of support from a professional body of legal practitioners, non-governmental organisation working in the field of human rights, or other legal field; and
  • Any additional documentation that the person nominating the candidate for Chief Justice deems relevant.
 

ForceFate

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Wrt Tshiqi, I speak under correction but she should be able to represent a client in a magistrate court but NOT a High Court, the Supreme Court of Appeal or the Constitutional Court. The reason for this goes back to my previous post concerning qualifications, she only holds a B.Proc degree and in order qualify to appear in the courts listed an LLB degree is a strict requirement.

She was never an advocate, she doesn't qualify as one. She was an attorney.







Wrt s114(5)

One would need to know her exact history in order to be certain where she slots in...
My question was with regards to claim that Mkhwebane can't represent anyone in any court. As an advocate, my assumption was that she could represent clients in high courts.
 

ponder

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My question was with regards to claim that Mkhwebane can't represent anyone in any court. As an advocate, my assumption was that she could represent clients in high courts.

Ah ok.

There was a story about her not being listed on the advocates roll, questioning whether she was ever admitted as an advocate. The roll now reflects her name, but as non-practicing.
 

Cosmik Debris

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My question was with regards to claim that Mkhwebane can't represent anyone in any court. As an advocate, my assumption was that she could represent clients in high courts.

There seem to be a lot of questions regarding Mkhwebane. Maybe someone here can give some information? I found this:

She replied by saying that Mkhwebane “is a qualified advocate otherwise she wouldn’t be holding office”.

Is Mkhwebane, though? Questions have been raised as her name isn’t on the roll of advocates kept by the department of justice and updated monthly.

Contacted by Africa Check, Mosana said that Mkhwebane was admitted in 1997 by the then Transvaal high court in Pretoria (now the North Gauteng high court).

But when asked for a copy of the order of admission issued by the court, Mosana told us: “Go to parliament, they appointed her. You are asking me for something that I cannot provide. I’m not her personal secretary.”

As Mkhwebane’s name isn’t on the roll, Africa Check went to the North Gauteng high court to search for her order of admission. We went through the cases that were set down or heard in 1997 and found the case number, 9180/97. According to the court records, Mkhwebane’s admission took place on 24 June 1997.

Unfortunately, the 1997 court order cannot be traced electronically and we had to request for it to be located. Africa Check was told that it will be made available in two weeks.



I'm trying to locate more information but the advocates roll is eluding me now. I know she wasn't on it after becoming PP for two years when I did look for her.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Thank you. That clears up the roll. Now we need to clear up the allegation that she still needs a requirement to represent a client in court. I'm looking for that too. What are the requirements?
 

ponder

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Thank you. That clears up the roll. Now we need to clear up the allegation that she still needs a requirement to represent a client in court. I'm looking for that too. What are the requirements?

I think that's because she's registered as a non practicing advocate. There are two rolls, practicing and non practicing.
 

Cosmik Debris

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I think that's because she's registered as a non practicing advocate. There are two rolls, practicing and non practicing.

Are their differences in qualification and can they move between the two rolls?
 

Fulcrum29

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In addition to the next CJ, these are the Constitutional Court Judge candidates whom are shortlisted (unchanged),

- Jody Kollapen
- Rammaka Mathopo
- Mahube Molemela
- Fayeeza Kathree-Setiloane
- Bashier Vally

two will be selected. There are more vacancies coming up, but interim appointments will apply.
 

surface

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In addition to the next CJ, these are the Constitutional Court Judge candidates whom are shortlisted (unchanged),

- Jody Kollapen
- Rammaka Mathopo
- Mahube Molemela
- Fayeeza Kathree-Setiloane
- Bashier Vally

two will be selected. There are more vacancies coming up, but interim appointments will apply.
Jody, Fayeeza & Bashier - sounds like Jamnadas relatives. EFF going to have a ball.
 
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