SADV - Remove Calix router and use GPON SPF in Mikrotik

[carl.heymann]

Hi SADV

Is it possible to remove the Calix router in your FTTH setup and use a GPON SFP and clone the MAC address of the Calix router.
I'm trying to remove all equipment/devices that is not required to keep things simple as well as reduce electricity. Every little bit helps.

The rest of SADV users - is there anyone out there that has done this?

Is there any dependancy on the ISP as well, or only on SADV?

Maybe Cool Ideas can comment on this as well?

@PBCool

 

[ThatOtherDude]

Sure it's possible.

Assuming you're referring to a "GPON ONT SFP"?
(GPON OLT SFP's are already installed in the line cards in the OLT).


but I won't allow you to use a GPON ONT SFP it if I was SADV, or Vuma, or Telkom etc.
too much hassle just for one guy?


It'll work fine b.t.w., (pretty much any brand ONT SFP) as long as the client side GPON ONT SFP supports the OLT SFP frequencies & sensitivities.

you'll need to know what brand & model OLT SFP's are installed in the OLT + brand & model of the OLT itself.



a) Your ONT connects to a port on the OLT (via a bunch of fibres, dome joints, splitters etc)

b) ON the OLT - your ONT's MAC address gets configured with your VLAN number
(each VLAN number is associated with an ISP)

c) All OLT traffic goes to a core switch that separates VLAN traffic & forwards ISP A's traffic to ISP A and ISP B's traffic to ISP B.

d) Throttling (the difference between a 10Mbps & 100Mbps package) is done at the ISP level - more switching over ports with speed limits / or between VLAN's with rate limits.


Interestingly: Huawei (and others) sell an "ONT+Dual band Wifi router combo unit"
Sadly the SA market doesn't like those very much because then the ISP's don't get to "sell" you a router.

 

[carl.heymann]

Sure it's possible.

Assuming you're referring to a "GPON ONT SFP"?
(GPON OLT SFP's are already installed in the line cards in the OLT).


but I won't allow you to use a GPON ONT SFP it if I was SADV, or Vuma, or Telkom etc.
too much hassle just for one guy?

Hi ThatOtherDude

Thank you for the feedback.

Yes I was refering to a GPON ONT SFP.

a) Your ONT connects to a port on the OLT (via a bunch of fibres, dome joints, splitters etc)
--- Understood

b) ON the OLT - your ONT's MAC address gets configured with your VLAN number
(each VLAN number is associated with an ISP)
--- Understood, so I can take the MAC address from the Calix ONT and configure it on my SFP port on the Mikrotik as it has that option, then said MAC address will still be configured with same VLAN and throttling/speed limits will apply as per package requested.

c) All OLT traffic goes to a core switch that separates VLAN traffic & forwards ISP A's traffic to ISP A and ISP B's traffic to ISP B.
--- See feedback on point b)

d) Throttling (the difference between a 10Mbps & 100Mbps package) is done at the ISP level - more switching over ports with speed limits / or between VLAN's with rate limits.
--- See feedback on point b)


Technically my request is possible to do. I just want to find out if my ISP and SADV will do this. I have read other threads here on the MyBB forum with similar requests being done from the ISP/fibre provider side.

 

[ThatOtherDude]

yebo. same MAC = same VLAN

buuuut. I've never worked on Calix before.
& if I was you I'd probably want to do some weekend reading first.





https://www.calix.com/content/calix.../r3x/gpon/index.htm?toc36798106.htm?36650.htm

 

[carl.heymann]

yebo. same MAC = same VLAN

buuuut. I've never worked on Calix before.
& if I was you I'd probably want to do some weekend reading first.





https://www.calix.com/content/calix.../r3x/gpon/index.htm?toc36798106.htm?36650.htm

Thank you for your feedback and insight.
Looks like there are compatibility issues between Calix OLT and Mikrotik/3rd Party equipment.

I will leave this for another day.

Currently my Mikrotik does the PPPoE connection and all the other functions I want/need it to do.

 

[pinball wizard]

Hi SADV

Is it possible to remove the Calix router in your FTTH setup and use a GPON SFP and clone the MAC address of the Calix router.
I'm trying to remove all equipment/devices that is not required to keep things simple as well as reduce electricity. Every little bit helps.
]

No, you can't. We manage that part of the network still. If you do what you suggest (although it may be technically possible) we will drop your connection.

 

[Mcwidowmaker]

I didn't think that was a good idea. The ONT is still part of the provider's network. Don't think they will allow you to mess with that, as it may impact things like their fault finding. When you manage a network on that scale, you need to keep it as standard as possible, as any specific changes you make can confuse the technicians and end up costing you a lot more time and money to manage.

 

[carl.heymann]

No, you can't. We manage that part of the network still. If you do what you suggest (although it may be technically possible) we will drop your connection.

Thank you for the feedback.

 

[MidnightWizard]

A few questions for the Gurus

Unfortunately no-one has yet seen fit to try and supply my area with fibre
SO
I do not know what is available -- what a fibre setup looks like ( equipment / connection )
or
What the various options are ?

I have a LOT of Cisco equipment ( Layer two / three gigabit switches and ESR routers with SFP's plus HWIC's and AP's ) part of an in-the-process Cisco network lab setup ( for myself. )

What I would like to know is -- IF I still need all the normal bits and pieces of a standard setup ?
or
IS it possible to terminate the fibre directly into my Cisco equipment ( even if I need a specific Cisco SFP or other particular / specialised equipment )

Thanks

 

[MidnightWizard]

OK
So I did a bit of Googling

My questions were / are somewhat in line and similar to the OP
He is asking in connection with vendor MikroTik . I am asking in connection with vendor Cisco

Fibre Transceiver Solution

Can GPON SFP Be Plugged Into My Own Switch?

It would appear that this is a more elegant solution ?
Less equipment , Less Money , Less time
BUT
NO "free" ONT "modem"

Why is this solution not being implemented in SA ?

 

[portcullis]

Why is this solution not being implemented in SA ?

There are two type of fibre network:

Active and Passive / PON.

There aren't many active home networks. The majority are PON. Vuma is the exception to this rule in some areas. SADV and Teralink also have active networks in some areas.

Most business networks are active.

You can tag vlans on switch ports of active networks.

For example. Open Access ISP vlan number is 1234.

@MidnightWizard if you know your way around Cisco, this should hopefully make sense.

The vlan is tagged on the ISP NAS, the ISP core router and any other routers and switches between the ISP and the open access network. Then it's also tagged on the open access network right op to the port on the switch that the client will connect to. The client places his or her PPPOE details, or DHCP client on the bare metal of the SFP ethernet port of the router.

Happy days.

With PON, the whole thing changes. There's no physical port that the client ONU / ONT plugs into. It just connects to the passive fibre network. Therefore the open access ISP vlan must be tagged on the WAN port of the ONU / ONT and the network owner needs some kind of MAC authorisation to ensure some other ONU isn't plugged into their network.

Cost of delivering the service also comes into play.

In a business park, you can put down a couple of 48 port switches and run 96 or 144 fibres to patch enclosures and then onto clients as needed, as you will recover the money from the business clients.

You can't do that in a domestic environment. Uptake is too low as people often don't have money for perceived luxuries like fibre internet, or they are tied into long contracts with ADSL or wireless service providers. Add to that churn. This year we've lost more than 100 ONUs, where people have just packed their bags and left in the night. Hence domestic networks are normally PON.

I work with both technologies on a daily basis. Both on networks that we own and networks that we resell service on. Active is just so much better.

If I had a choice between an active network like De Velde where SADV terminate the service on a CAT5 cable in the flat, or a PON network where I plug into a Calix ONU, I'd take active every time.

My two cents.

 

[Mcwidowmaker]

The fibre network will not allow you to install any equipment on their side of the ONT(Optical network terminal). The ONT is mandatory, as it forms part of their network. It has a normal network port, where you plug your cable in to. From there, you can install any equipment you want. There are two types of connections via the ONT.

Vuma uses DHCP and supplies your ONT with an ip. From there you just plug in your network equipment.

SADV and a few other s uses PPPOE, which means you need a device that can establish the connection. Your isp will supply a router for this, or you can use your cisco equipment or another type of firewall like pfsense to establish the pppoe connection for you.

 

[MidnightWizard]

There seem to be a number of vendors that do supply ONT SFP's
Alcatel -- IF -- I am not mistaken supply some of the ONT box devices ?

They also supply an ONT SFP

GPON ONT SFP

HUAWEI also supply such an ONT SFP device

Are SA fibre providers behind the International market ?

 

[MidnightWizard]

SADV and a few other s uses PPPOE, which means you need a device that can establish the connection. Your isp will supply a router for this, or you can use your cisco equipment or another type of firewall like pfsense to establish the pppoe connection for you.

ADSL -- on steroids
One wonders how you then acquire public IP addresses ?

 

[carl.heymann]

OK
So I did a bit of Googling

My questions were / are somewhat in line and similar to the OP
He is asking in connection with vendor MikroTik . I am asking in connection with vendor Cisco

Fibre Transceiver Solution

Can GPON SFP Be Plugged Into My Own Switch?

It would appear that this is a more elegant solution ?
Less equipment , Less Money , Less time
BUT
NO "free" ONT "modem"

Why is this solution not being implemented in SA ?

When I did some reading up after this post, I found that Calix OLT devices does not play nice with third-party devices even if a GPON SFP is used. After reading that an a few threads I decided to leave things as it. On the one hand I would like less equipment, less things that can fail, on the other hand, everything is working, so leave it as it is.

 

[MidnightWizard]

In a business park, you can put down a couple of 48 port switches and run 96 or 144 fibres to patch enclosures and then onto clients as needed, as you will recover the money from the business clients.

Is this possible in a large deployment -- ie a complex where all residents have to take up the service ?

I work with both technologies on a daily basis. Both on networks that we own and networks that we resell service on. Active is just so much better.

If I had a choice between an active network like De Velde where SADV terminate the service on a CAT5 cable in the flat, or a PON network where I plug into a Calix ONU, I'd take active every time.

I would like to be able to "terminate" ( plug ) straight into an ONT SFP on my Cisco Layer Three Gigabit PoE switch

Where it says -- "contact your network administrator" -- unfortunately ( for better or for worse ) that is ME

 

[MidnightWizard]

When I did some reading up after this post, I found that Calix OLT devices does not play nice with third-party devices even if a GPON SFP is used. After reading that an a few threads I decided to leave things as it. On the one hand I would like less equipment, less things that can fail, on the other hand, everything is working, so leave it as it is.

WHY was Calix chosen as the -- central office [OLT] equipment provider ?
There are ITU-T GLOBAL specifications that are meant to GUARANTEE vendor interoperability

SFP GPON ONT specifications

When one is learning -- you tend to have NOT -- "leave it as it is" ...

 

[portcullis]

WHY was Calix chosen as the -- central office [OLT] equipment provider ?

Seriously, the only reason I can think of is their SA sales and marketing staff are better than other vendors' staff.

We don't use their product as we are firm believers in open standards. I made the mistake of buying into a proprietory PON system (not Calix, something else) once, and once only. The ONUs for that specific site cost three times more than ONUs we use at other sites.

 

[MidnightWizard]

You can tag vlans on switch ports of active networks.

For example. Open Access ISP vlan number is 1234.

@MidnightWizard if you know your way around Cisco, this should hopefully make sense.

The vlan is tagged on the ISP NAS, the ISP core router and any other routers and switches between the ISP and the open access network. Then it's also tagged on the open access network right op to the port on the switch that the client will connect to. The client places his or her PPPOE details, or DHCP client on the bare metal of the SFP ethernet port of the router.

I am not too clued up as to what goes on on the other side of the CPE
I was under the impression that VLAN's are a layer two function and do not extend beyond the routers internal network -- ie are NOT ROUTED ?
NAS I always thought of as -- Network Attached Storage ?
We are talking .. switches , routers , and VLAN tagging -- mixing switching and routing in ways I do not fully understand.

 

[portcullis]

Is this possible in a large deployment -- ie a complex where all residents have to take up the service ?

Yes, we've done it successfully in two estates. SADV have done so in at least one estate I know of. Teralink does so in every estate. Everything goes well in the beginning, but once churn sets in, your switch ports go dead one after the other.

The big problem is that you can't force people to do the right thing. For example, I can't force someone to take a 20Mb FTTH uncapped, unshaped connection with a static IP address and native IPv6 from me. That person has freedom of choice to buy an inferior product for more money from another service provider.

These days people move into flats and pull their noses up if the network provider isn't "hip" - according to their standards.

Then you get spiteful people who move into the empty apartment and "protest" taking the fibre and physically break the cover plates off the walls and cement the wall boxes up and tile over them, or paint over them. Imagine the chaos when that clown moves on and the next person wants fibre.