SA's most unroadworthy car

[ToxicBunny]

kilo39 : what if they attempt to deliver the summons to the incorrect address (which is not the address thats ON the vehicle license)

 

[hj2k_x]

If they can't prove you were even notified of the offence though then I think it would be a defence.

This is what I would go with.

 

[orin76]

As far as delivering summonses goes, the summons/fine is sent to your registered address. If this address is incorrect, the onus is on you to correct it. I don't think an incorrect address can be used as an excuse.

Just my opinion (I'm not a lawyer).

 

[supersunbird]

How is one supposed to know someone made a typo and your address is incorrect?

What happens if whoever is supposed to delivers summonses just throws them in a rubbish bin?

This is why the law is BS now, and I personally dont really care about laws anymore...

 

[ToxicBunny]

orin76 : The address has NEVER been given to the motor licensing place as a domicilia citandi (sp?). and it is not even vaguely similar to the registered address on the license. The renewals are still sent to the correct address, so go figure.

 

[kilo39]

kilo39 : what if they attempt to deliver the summons to the incorrect address (which is not the address thats ON the vehicle license)

Yes (as has since been mentioned.) Cars are relicensed annually. It is up to you to ensure your licence is up to date and the delivery, registered address is correct.

I don't have an address "on the vehicle licence" I have one on the motor vehicle licensing and registration documents.

 

[hj2k_x]

Yes (as has since been mentioned.) Cars are relicensed annually. It is up to you to ensure your licence is up to date and the delivery, registered address is correct.

I don't have an address "on the vehicle licence" I have one on the motor vehicle licensing and registration documents.

My point is they have top serve the summons to you personally. If the address is right and you are not there, then what?

 

[kilo39]

My point is they have top serve the summons to you personally. If the address is right and you are not there, then what?

The only way you qualify (after repeated attempts to deliver) is by being out of the country in which case you better take your airticket stubs, passport etc when you eventually go to court after being picked up on the arrest warrent issued on your name.

 

[Darth Garth]

Everything keeps going right .

 

[hj2k_x]

The only way you qualify (after repeated attempts to deliver) is by being out of the country in which case you better take your airticket stubs, passport etc when you eventually go to court after being picked up on the arrest warrent issued on your name.

I see...Interesting.

 

[orin76]

orin76 : The address has NEVER been given to the motor licensing place as a domicilia citandi (sp?). and it is not even vaguely similar to the registered address on the license. The renewals are still sent to the correct address, so go figure.

Sorry for the delay; I was watching a movie at the bioskoop. What I wrote earlier was my understanding of how it work and may not be factually correct. Perhaps in your case, the address listed in your ID document is used.

 

[ToxicBunny]

orin76 : I had gone out as well.. so no worries.

I am also hazy on this issue as well, as the address on the ID is the same as the address registered for the vehicle. This is why things get murky, it is a business address which is in no way linked to the vehicle, or as a registered address of the owner of the vehicle.

Ag ja, anyway, I'm just waiting for all my fines to come thru in a few weeks. Its around about that time of the year when the Durban Metro police have speed trap blitzs and everyone seems to get 4 or 5 fines...

 

[Gnome]

HOLY **** I got another ticket for the exact same area!!!! This time I actually looked for a 100km/h sign but I couldn't see one!!! They say it's a built up area but I can't even see anything there except a straight piece of N1! WTF!!!

This time I drove 120Km/h in 100km/h zone which afforded me a R100 fine and I have to drive to Sandton to pay the ticket (according to the ticket that is the only place I can pay it). I live in freaking Pretoria. This is such a hypocritical money making scheme!

/rant

 

[ToxicBunny]

Gnome : unfortunately you are required to pay fines in the police jurisdiction that the fine is issued in, that is an understandable requirement.

Are there buildings or dwellings anywhere near the side of the N1 in that section because that will determine whether its a built-up area, not sure of the criteria and distances used to determine it, but there is something.

I do agree though, this whole speed trapping phenomenon in this country is becoming more and more about making money, than it is about curbing reckless driving. Too often I see cops setting up speed traps on bridges then just parking off for the day, and they pretty much never stop offenders anymore, so there is no tangible policing rather just a slow drain on bank accounts.

 

[bwana]

I do agree though, this whole speed trapping phenomenon in this country is becoming more and more about making money, than it is about curbing reckless driving. Too often I see cops setting up speed traps on bridges then just parking off for the day, and they pretty much never stop offenders anymore, so there is no tangible policing rather just a slow drain on bank accounts.

I figure this is the reason why there is such a delay in introducing the points system - people might actually take the probability of losing their license into consideration and slow down - which of course is probably the last thing the traffic police really want.

 

[Gnome]

Bwana: When did you become mod?

I honestly couldn't see anything that changed on that particular piece of road, there was a sort of living area but it looked 2km away or something, there is no way you could reach it going offroad style even if you actually try! It's just like centurion, anyone who's driven there can testify to just how stupid that 100km/h stretch of road is!

This point system will probably have some kind of measure to ensure that the speeders still keep speeding, they wouldn't just give up their golden cow for "safety" (Why do so many criminals walk free all the time? Surely their promise to curb crime is contrary to their supposed attempt?). I can just see the Metro scrubbing the system when their profits start to dwindle or when the Taxi's start losing their vehicles and we have Taxi uprising pt.2 on our hands (pt.1 being the scrapping of their taxi's)

 

[DavidJ]

This whole speed kills trash is starting to annoy me

Rationalise speeding all you want, but it really does kill. And no I don't know why they don't publish statistics on this, that doesn't mean they don't exist though ... sorry to spoil the party here:

http://www.slower-speeds.org.uk/sk1.htm

"Speed reductions cut casualties. The likelihood of crashes decreases as speeds are reduced. Although the relationship varies according to road conditions and average speeds, there is an association between speed reduction and crash reduction - every 1 mph reduction in speed reduction in crashes is accompanied by an average 5% decrease in crashes and a 7% decrease in fatalities. (5)

A 10% drop in speeds resulted in a 40% drop in fatalities and serious injuries after speed cameras were introduced in West London. (5)

Where 20 mph zones have been introduced and enforced, all casualties have fallen by around 60%."

http://www.securite-routiere.org/docacrobat/TRL511taylor.pdf

Check pages 16 and 17.

http://www.vti.se/Nordic/1-05/speed.htm

"These results show that there is a strong statistical association between speed and road safety. As an example, it can be estimated that a 10 percent reduction in the mean speed of traffic will result in a 37.8 reduction of the number of fatalities."

"When speed goes down, the number of accidents or injured road users also goes down in 95% of the cases. When speed goes up, the number of accidents or injured road users goes up in 71% of the cases."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Safety_and_efficacy

"To illustrate these statistics, suppose two vehicles crash into a massive, fixed object, and one vehicle’s speed is 10% greater than the other vehicle. The faster vehicle will release 21% more energy, and its occupants will experience a 46% higher probability of a fatality."

"The 1998 Synthesis of Safety Research Related to Speed and Speed Management sponsored by the US Federal Highway administration found, "on freeways and other high-speed roads, speed limit increases generally lead to higher speeds and crashes.""

"The report noted that traffic calming significantly reduced speeds and injuries in treated areas"

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2002/Speed_Risk_3.aspx

"An absolute speed curve was found to provide a good fit for speeds between 60 and 80 km/h whereby the risk of casualty crash involvement approximately doubled for each 5 km/h increase in travelling speed."

http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/speed/speed.htm

"In a landmark study of speed and crashes involving 10,000 drivers on 600 miles (970 kilometers) of rural highways, Solomon (1964) found a relationship between vehicle speed and crash incidence"

"Joksch (1993) found that the risk of a car driver being killed in a crash increased with the change in speed to the fourth power as shown in figure 5"

Check out "Table 4. Summary of the effects of traffic calming measures".

Etc. etc. etc., there've been hundreds of studies like this done all over the world and it's pretty much the same result over and over.

 

[Gnome]

The first link you posted was simply about the chances of pedestrians getting killed in the event of an accident (In South Africa, most people killed in car accidents are in fact pedestrians). They also suggest that accidents decrease by 60% when the speed limit is decreased to 20mp/h (33km/h), LOL

Who makes a accident at 33km/h, in South Africa that figure just isn't realistic even for built up area's. I work almost 40km from my home, do you honestly expect me to drive more than a hour, permitted I NEVER stop, to work? Come on be realistic, we have no transport infrastructure except road vehicles (Now you're going to mention trains aren't you?) and you expect us to drive 33km/h?

Built up area's are tricky but at 60km/h it's still very possible to run someone over and kill them, honestly who's at fault when a pedestrian is run over by a car and the driver wasn't at fault which is what happens most of the time? (How many people do YOU see each day crossing the road illegally? Because I see hordes of them). I've even been involved in such a accident needles to say the person who ran over the pedestrian wasn't even taken into custody (about 5 months ago), because the pedestrian ran over the N1 and stopped to pick something up, was hit by a Mercedes (dead on impact) after which the car we where in rode over him as well (My friend was driving the 120km/h speed limit but the guy came flying out of nowhere).

The other links you posted are all about your increased risk of being killed at higher speeds but no tangible proof is mention that (IE a scientifically verifiable study) accidents increase at increased speeds providing the road conditions permit the said higher speed (obviously a built up residential area isn't going to be fit for 100km/h)

Accident Record of Autobahn

The overall safety record of autobahns is comparable to other European motorways, and motorways are safer than other road types. A 2005 study by the Federal Minister of the Interior indicated that there were an equal number of accidents per kilometer on the autobahn in sections without any speed limits.

Source

The autobahn is very much comparable to South African National roads (IE N1) in terms of road quality, been there and there's nothing special about the road except the speed (140km/h in the slow lane with Mercedes and BMW's passing you by @ 200km/h+)

Although the basic relationship between vehicle speed and crash severity is unequivocal and based on the laws of physics, the probability of a crash as well as crash severity can be mitigated. Safety devices like crash attenuators, barriers, or wide medians are examples. The highest degree of mitigation is found on motorways (which may be called freeways, limited access highways, also Autobahns, Interstates or other national names), which are internationally documented as being the safest roads per mile travelled despite their higher speeds, due to designing out of most conflict opportunities as well as restricted access.

Most 'speed-related' crashes involve speed too fast for conditions such as limited visibility or reduced road traction, rather than in excess of the posted speed limit. Most speed-related crashes occur on local and collector roads with relatively low speed limits.

Source

* Inconclusive results from most speed limit studies. For example, a 1972 OECD Road Research Group report entitled 'Speed Limits Outside Built-Up Areas' reviewed most international studies to that date. They concluded that "because of the weaknesses in the research designs of many investigations, scientifically well-established conclusions cannot be drawn." "Indeed, some of the speed limit changes were more in the nature of administrative exercises than scientifically designed experiments and the methods of analysis in these cases were deficient from the statistical point of view." The Group stated that "speed limit policies should be based on reliable research work and generally accepted scientific evidence". They proposed an international co-operative experiment to overcome weaknesses in prior studies. However, the 1973-1974 oil price crisis intervened, and widespread blanket speed limits became more common without exacting study.

* Misleading definition of 'speeding' or 'speed-related' to combine the concepts of:
o crashes that occur often at relatively low speeds, but excessive for adverse conditions, such as low visibility
o citations that are issued for travel in excess of the posted speed limit

"Evidence that suggests the net effect of [higher motorway] speed limits may be positive on a system wide basis [by shifting more traffic to these safer roads]." This statement from 1998 U.S. Federal Synthesis is based on the published, peer-reviewed work of Charles A. Lave et al., e.g. "Did The 65 MPH speed Limit Save Lives?"

Source

Administrative aka Money making

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Vice-grip for steering wheel?

 

[ToxicBunny]

I Have no problem with the speed limits, because we do have some of the highest allowed speeds in the world as far as i know.

Gnome, our N roads are NOTHING like the unlimited sections of the AutoBahn, those freeways are built to VERY exacting standars and quality guarantees, our freeways aren't.

I just think this profiteering bull has to stop. Ok fine me for speeding, but then that money must be publically traceable and be put to some good use.

(Many thanks for the error being pointed out by our much esteemed bwana )