SA's most unroadworthy car

[Claymore]

My point is they have top serve the summons to you personally. If the address is right and you are not there, then what?

It can be delivered to any adult at your place of residence - and sometimes they can arrive at odd hours, when you'd be expected to be at home. I've had a summons delivered to a gate guard in our complex, which I do not believe is legal, but I sure as hell was not going to go to court to argue the point.

I always wait for the summons; it mean I can pay the fine at the local police station.

 

[ToxicBunny]

From my understanding of the legality of summons' is that they have to be HAND delivered to the person the summons is for. If they are given to anyone other than the person named in the summons, then they are no longer valid.

 

[hj2k_x]

It can be delivered to any adult at your place of residence - and sometimes they can arrive at odd hours, when you'd be expected to be at home. I've had a summons delivered to a gate guard in our complex, which I do not believe is legal, but I sure as hell was not going to go to court to argue the point.

I always wait for the summons; it mean I can pay the fine at the local police station.

It isn't.

 

[hj2k_x]

From my understanding of the legality of summons' is that they have to be HAND delivered to the person the summons is for. If they are given to anyone other than the person named in the summons, then they are no longer valid.

Exactly.

 

[Syndyre]

From my understanding of the legality of summons' is that they have to be HAND delivered to the person the summons is for. If they are given to anyone other than the person named in the summons, then they are no longer valid.

That's what I thought too.

 

[bwana]

It can be delivered to any adult at your place of residence - and sometimes they can arrive at odd hours, when you'd be expected to be at home. I've had a summons delivered to a gate guard in our complex, which I do not believe is legal, but I sure as hell was not going to go to court to argue the point.

I always wait for the summons; it mean I can pay the fine at the local police station.

Same here. Much more convenient. My local cop shop is a minute away - the traffic dept is about 30.

 

[hj2k_x]

I Have no problem with the speed limits, because we do have some of the highest allowed speeds in the world as far as i know.

Gunny, our N roads are NOTHING like the unlimited sections of the AutoBahn, those freeways are built to VERY exacting standars and quality guarantees, our freeways aren't.

I just think this profiteering bull has to stop. Ok fine me for speeding, but then that money must be publically traceable and be put to some good use.

This is true, for the most part. Certainly when it comes to the shocking quality of large stretches of our N roads. There, the speed limits are in place for very good reason. One would hope that with all the money they make from fines along these stretches, the roads could be maintained a bit better!

I will happily pay a fine if it is reasonable and i have exceeded a reasonable speed limit. HOWEVER, there are two areas in Cape Town where the limit is ridiculous-

1) The stretch of FREEWAY leading up to the circle in Green Point where the limit is 60

2) The stretch going past Paarden Eiland on the N1. Here the limit is 80 despite it being a three-lane freeway.

Here , I will pay no fines.

 

[bwana]

Gunny, our N roads are NOTHING like the unlimited sections of the AutoBahn, those freeways are built to VERY exacting standars and quality guarantees, our freeways aren't.

I think you mean Gnome?

 

[ToxicBunny]

Aggg, it was tooo early in the morning... i do apologise.. i shall edit and make the change now.....

/me apologise profusely for implicating innocent people in the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

 

[kilo39]

Well I'm glad to see that no-one has actually told me I'm wrong (post #28)

I am not a lawyer and will gladly stand to be corrected.

A speeding fine (for instance)(and let's differentiate between a camera fine and one delivered at the side of the road, after they've flagged you down) is issued on the registration of the car: the licence plate. They then correlate licence plate to owner, ie, the registered owner of the vehicle, listed on the licencing and registration document that is updated, renewed at least once a year. Usually an individuals name. Note the individual/owner does not need to be driving the vehicle. It is immaterial who is driving the summons is still delivered to the owner (if the owner has loaned his vehicle; he does it with the understanding he is liable for the fines.)

A similar scenario exists with fleet owned vehicles: in this case the company is the owner of the vehicle and they are liable for the fines. But let's be clear: companies will find the driver (an employee) and I would think if you are a driver for a company you sign responsibility for your own fines while driving a company vehicle. They are delivered to the company but they are yours. If you are not around to take responsibility then the company is liable (they are always liable) and are expected to pay the fine (taking responsibility for their vechiles and the trust they have given their employees.) Ultimately top dog of the company, MD or shareholders, the board is responsible for the fines (but it seldom comes to this, a company will simply pay, dock the employees salary, or write it off to expenses.)

Point: there is no evading fines. The fact that a summons is not delivered into your hand is beside the point. They deliver multi-times to the delivery/registered address/owner. If this "owner" is consistently not available it means they are either out the country or are evading the fine possibly even by false information, or out of date information on the registration document (as this is updated at least once a year. And if you look into the deeper laws of the country, how long away etc, absence is no defence.)

Fine->summons->warrant. They will arrest you for evading the law, not keeping up to date registration, whatever, its a very long list. Point is they will issue the warrant and they will arrest you.

Do you really think you can evade the law!! Catch a wakeup.

And by the bye: the points system is a fate we would prefer not to have. It is as open to abuse as fines except you finally end up banned for some really dumb stupid little thing.

 

[bwana]

And by the bye: the points system is a fate we would prefer not to have. It is as open to abuse as fines except you finally end up banned for some really dumb stupid little thing.

Have you lived in a country where there is a points system? I have and have yet to be the victim of abuse. The points arent given arbitrarily.

EDIT

Point: there is no evading fines. The fact that a summons is not delivered into your hand is beside the point.

As far as I could tell no one was advocating the evasion of paying the fine. Waiting until the summons is delivered is not in itself evasion as far as I can tell. The added convenience of being able to pay it at the local cop shop alone makes it a worthwhile exercise.

 

[ToxicBunny]

bwana : this unfortunately is SA, and someone will figure out a way to abuse the points system so they can make money....

 

[bwana]

bwana : this unfortunately is SA, and someone will figure out a way to abuse the points system so they can make money....

Perhaps but one thing I am sure of is that more people will be going to court to fight any abuses rather than simply paying a fine because it is the path of least resistance.

 

[kilo39]

Have you lived in a country where there is a points system? I have and have yet to be the victim of abuse. The points arent given arbitrarily.

Yes I have bwana (I could tell you [-]a[/-] many very funny stories in this regard.) The way it works: you get points for everything (not just speeding.) So if you turn right for instance at an intersection where a right turn is forbidden between certain hours (it is signposted but you missed the sign, not exactly prominent) then that is an automatic 2 points on your licence, and so it goes on: not necessarily major infractions but they all add up - then one day you are banned for "some stupid dumb thing," ie, it is abused like law abuses everything.

EDIT - Also -as far as I could tell no one was advocating the evasion of paying the fine. Waiting until the summons is delivered is not in itself evasion as far as I can tell. The added convenience of being able to pay it at the local cop shop alone makes it a worthwhile exercise.

No, at the point a summons is issued it can only be paid at the court. Otherwise a fine has to be paid at the local authority, not a police station. Police stations no longer accept payment on traffic fines. At the point a summons is issued only payment at the court is valid.

 

[bwana]

Yes I have bwana (I could tell you [-]a[/-] many very funny stories in this regard.) The way it works: you get points for everything (not just speeding.) So if you turn right for instance at an intersection where a right turn is forbidden between certain hours (it is signposted but you missed the sign, not exactly prominent) then that is an automatic 2 points on your licence, and so it goes on: not necessarily major infractions but they all add up - then one day you are banned for "some stupid dumb thing," ie, it is abused like law abuses everything.

Having spent the best part of my life in countries where there are point systems in place I have yet to experience anything like what you have. I'm having problems trying to think of even a single friend, family member or otherwise associated person who has come even remotely close to having their license suspended. Plenty of points - I know I've been issued my share and I deserved them all.

No, at the point a summons is issued it can only be paid at the court. Otherwise a fine has to be paid at the local authority, not a police station. Police stations no longer accept payment on traffic fines. At the point a summons is issued only payment at the court is valid.

I must be thinking of the wrong document then - whatever the one is that the nice guy knocks on my door and hand delivers. Thats the one I wait for and then pay at the local police station. Next time I'll make a note of what its called.

I know it differs from the ones the traffic police have in the past issued to me (as opposed to the camera ones that come in the post) because those, at the officer's suggestion, I can pay immediately at the local police station.

Perhaps the difference is in the local authority who issues them?

 

[ToxicBunny]

I have only ever ONCE had someone deliver a summons to me personally, usually I get those notices of summons in the post which has a court date attached to it.

 

[kilo39]

Having spent the best part of my life in countries where there are point systems in place I have yet to experience anything like what you have. I'm having problems trying to think of even a single friend, family member or otherwise associated person who has come even remotely close to having their license suspended. Plenty of points - I know I've been issued my share and I deserved them all. I must be thinking of the wrong document then - whatever the one is that the nice guy knocks on my door and hand delivers. Thats the one I wait for and then pay at the local police station. Next time I'll make a note of what its called.

So lets see: me now have 2 points for turning right. You stop on a "red" line. 2 points. You stop on a pedestrian crossing: 2 points. You go through a changing robot: 2 points (what are you going to do, argue with the bobby, I did many times. ). Speeding. Driving without your headlights (negligence.) And so it goes on.... endless list. Before you know where you are 10 points gone: banned. Takes 5 years to "lose" points from the date of issue. 10 points, court case and they decide how long to ban you.

I know it differs from the ones the traffic police have in the past issued to me (as opposed to the camera ones that come in the post) because those, at the officer's suggestion, I can pay immediately at the local police station.

Perhaps the difference is in the local authority who issues them?

Yes there are possibly differences in authority. CT cannot pay at police stations (and all the rest as written is correct.) (Until I stand corrected.)

 

[Claymore]

bwana : this unfortunately is SA, and someone will figure out a way to abuse the points system so they can make money....

Like in other countries: there are people with reasonably clean records who will admit to driving your car, and will take the points penalty, for a fee.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Eish, a whole new industry for people to abuse...

Oh well.... thankfully i don't drive that much anymore so i won't have to worry about that...