Satrix 40 vs RMB Top 40

[Renier]

I want to invest a lump sum into a top 40 index tracker.

Looking at Satrix-40 the fee is 0.45% and RMB Top 40 TER is 0.19%

Why are most people rather using Satrix?

Is liquidity a problem with RMBT40? Would I have a problem when I want to sell and have to take a sell-price below the current market value?

I would appreciate any comments from people that have used the non-Satrix trackers out there.

 

[Sinbad]

Liquidity is not an issue - I think the satrix one has just been going a lot longer.

 

[Gaz{M}]

Why not get both?

 

[Alwynz]

Its all potatoes vs potatoes - it really just comes down to knowing about the one and not the other.

I do suggest you look at Coronation as well - I prefer it above Satrix/RMB.

 

[Sinbad]

Its all potatoes vs potatoes - it really just comes down to knowing about the one and not the other.

I do suggest you look at Coronation as well - I prefer it above Satrix/RMB.

Be aware of the differences between an ETF and a unit trust though...

 

[Renier]

If you are referring to Coronation Top 20, that is an actively managed unit trust, and a fairly expensive one at that, with a TER of over 3%.

 

[supersunbird]

If you are referring to Coronation Top 20, that is an actively managed unit trust, and a fairly expensive one at that, with a TER of over 3%.

Not correct, and yes it varies and yes it can get that high if it seriously outperforms benchmark: http://www.coronation.com/assets/factsheet/2014/February/Coronation Top 20 Fund.pdf

Annual Management Fee - performance
related*
Minimum - standard: 1.00%
Minimum - discounted: 0.50%
Maximum: 3.00%

Total Expense Ratio (TER) 1.90% per annum, which includes a performance fee of 0.73%

Have to include vat and its 2.166%.

 

[Renier]

Yes sorry, I looked at an old Fund Fact Sheet when it was 3.2%. 2% is still fairly high though.

But in this case I'm comparing passive ETFs at 0.2%. So it's not really the same thing.

 

[supersunbird]

Yes sorry, I looked at an old Fund Fact Sheet when it was 3.2%. 2% is still fairly high though.

But in this case I'm comparing passive ETFs at 0.2%. So it's not really the same thing.

Have to include VAT on that 0.2%.

Problem with ETFs is you cant yet included them in a RA. That where Sygnia index funds unit trusts are good, they are 0.4% incl VAT and can be included in a Sygnia RA.

Otherwise the RMB Top 40 is better than the Satrix Top 40, since you are getting the exact same thing, so cheaper fees means more money in your account.

Another thing to consider is the platforms fees, like the Satrix Investors Scheme (or whatever the correct name is) or EFTSA fees, if one is not buying the ETFs directly on the stock market (where other broking fees might apply), either way, you must include those fees.

 

[Sinbad]

You can buy into RMB T40 and midcap40 through FNB share investor for minimal fees - just set up a monthly debit and you're done

 

[supersunbird]

You can buy into RMB T40 and midcap40 through FNB share investor for minimal fees - just set up a monthly debit and you're done

Do you know what the cheapest account is one can do this on? No point in getting a Cheque account R100pm for that, I'm 100% satisfied with my Capitec.

 

[Sinbad]

https://www.fnb.co.za/share-investing/share-saver.html

You need an FNB cheque account, you could possibly opt for a smart account on pay-per-transaction basis, not sure.

If you can find another option, go for it.

 

[supersunbird]

https://www.fnb.co.za/share-investing/share-saver.html

You need an FNB cheque account, you could possibly opt for a smart account on pay-per-transaction basis, not sure.

If you can find another option, go for it.

Thanks for the reply, I see FNB site still sucks and the load bar often just stops so I couldn't really find the info myself.

I see one also has to add FNB portfolio fees and that takes the 0.2% up to 0.6% excl VAT. So Sygnia is still cheaper...

 

[Verde]

I want to invest a lump sum into a top 40 index tracker.

Looking at Satrix-40 the fee is 0.45% and RMB Top 40 TER is 0.19%

Why are most people rather using Satrix?

Is liquidity a problem with RMBT40? Would I have a problem when I want to sell and have to take a sell-price below the current market value?

I would appreciate any comments from people that have used the non-Satrix trackers out there.

Yes, liquidity is a real problem with ETF's, and the RMBTOP40 is a lot less liquid than Satrix40. I have picked up some nice bargains exploiting this, the market maker seems to be asleep half the time.
You need to know what you're doing in the ETF market, not for the novice.

 

[Verde]

Have to include vat and its 2.166%.

Not true. TER is VAT incl. Fund management fees are however often quoted VAT excl.

 

[Mr Feesh]

Have a few thousand to invest at the moment. I want to choose what companies to buy shares in but it seems you have to pay a monthly fee with most places + a brokerage %. Is there any way to buy shares without having to pay the fixed monthly fee, I understand I will still have to pay the brokerage %.

 

[Renier]

ABSA Stockbrokers waive the monthly fee if you do 5 trades per year. Their 0.4% fee is also fair.

Unfortunately they have a minimum fee per trade of R120, so you practically only get the 0.4% fee on trades above R30,000.

 

[RSkeens]

Have a few thousand to invest at the moment. I want to choose what companies to buy shares in but it seems you have to pay a monthly fee with most places + a brokerage %. Is there any way to buy shares without having to pay the fixed monthly fee, I understand I will still have to pay the brokerage %.

A few thousand would be best spent on a passive product such as an ETF or Unit Trust and not shares directly. There are usually lump sum deposit minimums involved but you should be able to find one for your needs.

 

[Mr Feesh]

A few thousand would be best spent on a passive product such as an ETF or Unit Trust and not shares directly. There are usually lump sum deposit minimums involved but you should be able to find one for your needs.

don't know much about ETF or unit trusts, will look into it. Looking for a long term investment.

 

[KleinBoontjie]

don't know much about ETF or unit trusts, will look into it. Looking for a long term investment.

Then ETF's the way to go.
I was going to use the Satrix one, but they wanted copies of my ID, bank statements etc, all stamped and certified. I didn't have time to get all of those, so I opted for the FNB one, just easier. And it's really doing well. I'll probably get one from somewhere else later, but for now, I'm good.