Saudis May Drop Screen for Women Advisers

LazyLion

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A Saudi newspaper says officials may consider dropping plans for a barrier separating men and the newly appointed women in the country's top advisory body.

The reports follow the swearing-in ceremony Sunday for the first women in the ultraconservative kingdom's Shura Council. There was no barrier during the event as the 30 women sat on one side of the chamber and the 130 men on the other.

Saudi Arabia's strict Islamic codes sharply restrict mixing between genders.

The pro-government Al-Watan newspaper reported Monday that the original proposal for a barrier in the Shura chamber now could be reconsidered.

In 2011, King Abdullah said women can vote and run as candidates in the next municipal elections in 2015. The kingdom's women are still banned from driving and face many other restrictions.


Source : Sapa-AP
 

daveza

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Dropping a screen - wow, what a progressive step !

One day they may even sit.....next to each other.
 

wayfarer

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Lol, this is absolutely revolutionary for Wahhabis! Women to be allowed the vote in 2015! Woohoo!

Actually its disgusting that this sect claims to follow Prophet Muhammad, and yet they proceed to oppress the way they do. Do they not know that Lady Ayesha was amongst the leading scholars during the early days of Islam (and that there have also been a significant number of female scholars throughout Islamic history)? That Prophet Muhammad even appointed a female to lead a battle? That Prophet Muhammad said the best of people are those who treat women the best? Wahhabism, through its extreme literalism, pre-modern interpretations and eschewing of any scholarly legacies (schools of thought), is an ignorant schism and an affront to mainstream Islam.

The day I know that Saudi Arabia has come to the table is when they have a female person as head of state, as many other Muslim countries have had. Who knows, maybe they'll even beat the USA in having a female head of state!
 

daveza

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Who knows, maybe they'll even beat the USA in having a female head of state!

I can see that !

Along with Miss Bikini Saudi Arabia, female taxi drivers and happy hour down at the local.
 

lived666

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I can see that !

Along with Miss Bikini Saudi Arabia, female taxi drivers and happy hour down at the local.

they already have a miss something or other in apartheid kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and I kid you not, here is the photo with her 2 runner ups, the one on the left has caught my eye

saudi.jpg
 

daveza

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That pic drives me f$%^&*# mental.

What kind of person makes a woman do that !
 

Stochos

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Lol, this is absolutely revolutionary for Wahhabis! Women to be allowed the vote in 2015! Woohoo!

Actually its disgusting that this sect claims to follow Prophet Muhammad, and yet they proceed to oppress the way they do. Do they not know that Lady Ayesha was amongst the leading scholars during the early days of Islam (and that there have also been a significant number of female scholars throughout Islamic history)? That Prophet Muhammad even appointed a female to lead a battle? That Prophet Muhammad said the best of people are those who treat women the best? Wahhabism, through its extreme literalism, pre-modern interpretations and eschewing of any scholarly legacies (schools of thought), is an ignorant schism and an affront to mainstream Islam.

The day I know that Saudi Arabia has come to the table is when they have a female person as head of state, as many other Muslim countries have had. Who knows, maybe they'll even beat the USA in having a female head of state!




MUHAMMAD, AISHA, ISLAM, AND CHILD BRIDES

3) EVIDENCE THAT AISHA WAS 9 WHEN SHE CONSUMMATED HER MARRIAGE

Now that we’ve established that Islam allows husbands to engage in sex with their child-brides, let’s move on to Muhammad and Aisha. The Islamic source materials state that Aisha was 9 when they consummated their marriage.

From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

From the hadith of Muslim, volume 2, #3309

Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine….

From the hadith of the Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, #2116

"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

From "The History of Tabari", volume 9, page 131

"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"...(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died.

From the Encyclopedia of Islam, under "Aisha":

"Some time after the death of Khadija, Khawla suggested to Muhammad that he should marry either Aisha, the 6 year old daughter of his chief follower, or Sawda Zama, a widow of about 30, who had gone as a Muslim to Abyssinia and whose husband had died there. Muhammad is said to have asked her to arrange for him to marry both. It had already been agreed that Aisha should marry Djubayr Mutim, whose father, though still pagan, was friendly to the Muslims. By common consent, however, this agreement was set aside, and Muhammad was betrothed to Aisha... The marriage was not consummated until some months after the Hidjra, (in April 623, 624). Aisha went to live in an apartment in Muhammad's house, later the mosque of Median. She cannot have been more than ten years old at the time and took her toys to her new home."



SUMMARY OF THE EVIDENCE OF AISHA'S AGE

The above references are just a sample of the Islamic source material statements that Aisha was 9 when her marriage was consummated. Over and over again the great Islamic scholars state that Aisha was 9 when her marriage was consummated. No serious Muslim scholar doubts this. Generally it is only embarrassed Muslims living in the West who challenge her age. For a more in-depth presentation of the evidence of Aisha’s age being 9, see Sam’s article here.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm#s3
 

daveza

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Curious - is there any concrete evidence that this Aisha ever existed ?
 

Mineer

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Curious - is there any concrete evidence that this Aisha ever existed ?

short answer no
but
What's more, Aisha had already been engaged to someone else before she married Muhammad, suggesting she had already been mature enough by the standards of her society to consider marriage for a while.
and
What the records are clear on is that Muhammad and Aisha had a loving and egalitarian relationship, which set the standard for reciprocity, tenderness and respect enjoined by the Qur'an. Insights into their relationship, such as the fact they liked to drink out of the same cup or race one another, are indicative of a deep connection which belies any misrepresentation of their relationship.

To paint Aisha as a victim is completely at odds with her persona. She was certainly no wallflower. During a controversial battle in Muslim history, she emerged riding a camel to lead the troops. She was known for her assertive temperament and mischievous sense of humour – with Muhammad sometimes bearing the brunt of the jokes. During his lifetime, he established her authority by telling Muslims to consult her in his absence; after his death, she went to be become one of the most prolific and distinguished scholars of her time.
source

this is a long article but I hope you read to the end :)
 
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D.B.Cooper

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A loving and egalitarian relationship? This would be the same Muhammad that ordered one of his peons to do this:

A woman called Asma’ Bint Marwan (Asma’ the daughter of Marwan) wrote a few verses criticizing Muhammad for the killing of Abu Afak. When Muhammad heard what she had called his gang members and said to them: "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?"

One of his clans “Umayr Ibn Adi” volunteered. He went to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her, and there was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with Muhammad. After the prayer Muhammad said to him: "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?" He [Muhammad] said: "No two goats will butt together about her.”

The life of the Prophet by Ibn Hisham

Also:

Umm Qirfa, Fatima, was a very old women. She was known in Arabia as a woman with great honor and pride. Muhammad claimed that she was planning on killing him, so he sent his gang members to attack her village lead by Zayd Bin haritha. The lady was captured and ordered to be killed by ripping her body apart.

They tied a rope to each of her legs then tied the other end to two strong camels, they whipped the camels, driving them to pull with their greatest force. The body of the poor woman was ripped apart. Praised to be Allah and peace be upon his merciful prophet.

The executioner appointed by Zayd 'tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to camels, and they split her in two.'
 

Mineer

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A loving and egalitarian relationship? This would be the same Muhammad that ordered one of his peons to do this:



Also:

:love: goalpost shifted once more,
first off let me ask your sources, Secondly are they what is considered authentic and complete by Sunni Muslims?

Esp in light of these hadith which considered authentic and complete by Sunni Muslim scholars with source for verification.

Saheeh Muslim

Book 019, Hadith Number 4319.

Chapter : Prohibition of killing women and children in war.

It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah that a woman was found killed in one of the battles fought by the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He disapproved of the killing of women and children.

Book 019, Hadith Number 4320.

Chapter : Prohibition of killing women and children in war.

It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

Sunan Abu Dawud

Book 008, Hadith Number 2663.

Narated By Rabah ibn Rabi' : When we were with the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) on an expedition, he saw some people collected together over something and sent a man and said: See, what are these people collected around? He then came and said: They are round a woman who has been killed. He said: This is not one with whom fighting should have taken place. Khalid ibn al-Walid was in charge of the van; so he sent a man and said: Tell Khalid not to kill a woman or a hired servant. (Declared authentic by Shaykh Nasr Al Deen Al Albani in Sunan Abu Dawud Hadith no.2669)
Malik's Muwatta

Book 021, Hadith Number 008.

Section : Prohibition against Killing Women and Children in Military Expeditions.

Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that a son of Kab ibn Malik (Malik believed that ibn Shihab said it was Abd ar-Rahman ibn Kab) said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade those who fought ibn Abi Huqayq (a treacherous jew from Madina) to kill women and children. He said that one of the men fighting had said, 'The wife of ibn Abi Huqayq began screaming and I repeatedly raised my sword against her. Then I would remember the prohibition of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, so I would stop. Had it not been for that, we would have been rid of her.'"

Book 021, Hadith Number 010.

Section : Prohibition against Killing Women and Children in Military Expeditions.

Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that Abu Bakr as-Siddiq was sending armies to ash-Sham. He went for a walk with Yazid ibn Abi Sufyan who was the commander of one of the battalions. It is claimed that Yazid said to Abu Bakr, "Will you ride or shall I get down?" Abu Bakrsaid, "I will not ride and you will not get down. I intend these steps of mine to be in the way of Allah."

Then Abu Bakr advised Yazid, "You will find a people who claim to have totally given themselves to Allah. Leave them to what they claim to have given themselves. You will find a people who have shaved the middle of their heads, strike what they have shaved with the sword.

"I advise you ten things Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly."

Book 021, Hadith Number 009.

Section : Prohibition against Killing Women and Children in Military Expeditions.

Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi from Ibn Umar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, saw the corpse of a woman who had been slain in one of the raids, and he disapproved of it and forbade the killing of women and children.
Sunan Abu Dawud

Book 008, Hadith Number 2663.

Narated By Rabah ibn Rabi' : When we were with the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) on an expedition, he saw some people collected together over something and sent a man and said: See, what are these people collected around? He then came and said: They are round a woman who has been killed. He said: This is not one with whom fighting should have taken place. Khalid ibn al-Walid was in charge of the van; so he sent a man and said: Tell Khalid not to kill a woman or a hired servant. (Declared authentic by Shaykh Nasr Al Deen Al Albani in Sunan Abu Dawud Hadith no.2669)

Saheeh Bukhari

Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 257.

Narrated By 'Abdullah : During some of the Ghazawat(Battles) of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 258.

Narrated By Ibn 'Umar : During some of the Ghazawat(Battles) of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.

This would be the same Muhammad(P.B.U.H) that was quoted 9 times that what is in direct opposition to your 2, 9 times with source for verification.
 
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D.B.Cooper

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:love: goalpost shifted once more,
first off let me ask your sources, Secondly are they what is considered authentic and complete by Sunni Muslims?

Esp in light of these hadith which considered authentic and complete by Sunni Muslim scholars with source for verification.

This would be the same Muhammad(P.B.U.H) that was quoted 9 times that what is in direct opposition to your 2, 9 times with source for verification.

Here you go, knock yourself out. Feel free to go look up the original texts, I can't be arsed since I can't bring myself to care enough about your so-called "prophet" or your religion.

Zayd also raided Wadi-l-Qurra where he met Banu Fazara and some of his companions were killed; he himself carried wounded from the field. Ward b. Amr b. Madash one of B. Sad b. Hudhayl was killed by one of B. Badr whose name Sa’d b. Hudhaym. When Zayd came he swore that he would use no ablution until he raided B. Fazara; and when he recovered from his wounds the apostle sent him against them with a force. He fought them in Wadi-al-Qura and killed some of them. Qays b. al-Musahhar al-Yamuri killed Mas’ada b. Hakama b. Malik b. Hudhayfa b. Badr and Umm Qirfa Fatima was taken prisoner. She was a very old woman, wife of Malik. Her daughter and Abdulla b. Mas’ada were also taken. Zaid ordered Qays b al-Musahhar to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly.

Ibn Ishaq 980

Allah’s Messenger sent Zayd to Wadi Qura, where he encountered the Banu Fazarah. Some of his Companions were killed, and Zayd was carried away wounded. Ward was slain by the Banu Badr. When Zayd returned, he vowed that no washing should touch his head until he had raided the Fazarah. After he recovered, Muhammad sent him with an army against the Fazarah settlement. He met them in Qura and inflicted casualties on them and took Umm Qirfah prisoner. He also took one of Umm’s daughters and Abdallah bin Mas’adah prisoner. Zyad bin Harithah ordered Qays to kill Umm, and he killed her cruelly. He tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to two camels, and they split her in two.

Tabari Vol.8:page.96
 

Solarion

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