Scottish farmer says competition from SA makes harvest 'unviable', donates entire blueberry crop

[Cosmik Debris]

It's not a dosing valve but a large shut off valve according to reports. Shut off valves don't stay under lock when plant is in operation.

Explain?

Human error means accidents can happen anywhere in the world.

Does the entire plant shut down in SA when there is even a minor accident?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Yet they can import from SA cheaper than they can pick them on their own back doorstep.

Of course. When you pay £10 a day to labourer in SA and £10 an hour to a labourer in the UK and then still holiday and pension, it's much cheaper from SA.

30 Pickers in SA will cost you £300. 30 pickers in the UK will cost you £2400 for an 8 hour day. Then add the holiday and pension in the UK and you're looking at 10 times the cost.

 

[ForceFate]

Explain?

Does the entire plant shut down in SA when there is even a minor accident?

According to reports, demin water to the plant was contaminated. I never worked at a power station but my understanding is that feed water to most boilers must be demineralised. Any contamination mean mean entire system must be emptied. No boiler, no turbine therefore, no generation.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

According to reports, demin water to the plant was contaminated. I never worked at a power station but my understanding is that feed water to most boilers must be demineralised. Any contamination mean mean entire system must be emptied. No boiler, no turbine therefore, no generation.

Correct. Demineralised water is required to prevent scale buildup in boilers. Operational boiler feed should be demineralised water. Chemical dosing is used to remove scale in boilers, there always will be some, during maintenance. Same as you use in your kettle. It's never used during operations. So the valve should have been locked shut, even with a chain.

 

[ForceFate]

Correct. Demineralised water is required to prevent scale buildup in boilers. Operational boiler feed should be demineralised water. Chemical dosing is used to remove scale in boilers, there always will be some, during maintenance. Same as you use in your kettle. It's never used during operations. So the valve should have been locked shut, even with a chain.

I know the operation and why you don't want scale buildup on boiler tubes. I've seen damage caused by poor operation and maintenance of boilers.

As far as I understand the article, the valve in question is not a dosing valve. It's claimed in the article that the valve is a large valve that requires a bit of effort to open so there's no way it's a dosing valve.

If a shutoff valve to a bypass system, then decision to chain it is purely operational and has nothing to do with SHEQ.

My understanding of course, based on the little info available.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I know the operation and why you don't want scale buildup on boiler tubes. I've seen damage caused by poor operation and maintenance of boilers.

As far as I understand the article, the valve in question is not a dosing valve. It's claimed in the article that the valve is a large valve that requires a bit of effort to open so there's no way it's a dosing valve.

If a shutoff valve to a bypass system, then decision to chain it is purely operational and has nothing to do with SHEQ.

My understanding of course, based on the little info available.

Thanks. Until we get more clarity, we'll have to leave it here. But a large valve that takes effort to open cannot be mistaken for any other and should have been chained and locked if it could disrupt an entire power station by contaminating the boiler water.

 

[Howdy]

Thanks. Until we get more clarity, we'll have to leave it here. But a large valve that takes effort to open cannot be mistaken for any other and should have been chained and locked if it could disrupt an entire power station by contaminating the boiler water.

I'd ask what training and procedures are in place. This speaks to operational issues.

 

[airborne]

We were tested at random with no suspicion at all. Company policy so many tests a week.

Glad to see SA is catching up to first world norms regarding booze and drugs at the workplace.

On-site breathalyser testing for alcohol has been around in many industries in South Africa for decades, random tests and obligatory tests for every person entering the premise/area.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

On-site breathalyser testing for alcohol has been around in many industries in South Africa for decades, random tests and obligatory tests for every person entering the premise/area.

I'm not allowed to be employed in South Africa due to BEE. AA and EE but I worked on company assets when the vessels stopped over in SA in Cape Town and PE while I was on a break and the company asked if I would help out. We were breathalysed on the way in daily. Overseas it's on suspicion or random only but a comprehensive drug test is compulsory at the annual medical or if involved in an accident. Chance takers just won't survive in the company due to the ethics required to work for the company.

A South African colleague hurt his foot on company time while on course in the USA. He was drug tested and indications of opium were shown. He was very lucky that he had his doctor's prescription handy for codeine based pain killers common in SA but very difficult to get in the USA or he would have been flown home immediately and unemployed.

 

[ForceFate]

Thanks. Until we get more clarity, we'll have to leave it here.

Yeah.

But a large valve that takes effort to open cannot be mistaken for any other and should have been chained and locked if it could disrupt an entire power station by contaminating the boiler water.

You'd be surprised how many things can shut down entire plant in process plants, especially things that can be operated by hand.

 

[ForceFate]

I'm not allowed to be employed in South Africa due to BEE.

It's funny because all my current and former employers can hire white people at any level whenever they want to. One department at my ex employer was even staffed by white people only...i.e. experienced staff and a new graduate.

AA and EE but I worked on company assets when the vessels stopped over in SA in Cape Town and PE while I was on a break and the company asked if I would help out. We were breathalysed on the way in daily. Overseas it's on suspicion or random only but a comprehensive drug test is compulsory at the annual medical or if involved in an accident. Chance takers just won't survive in the company due to the ethics required to work for the company.

A South African colleague hurt his foot on company time while on course in the USA. He was drug tested and indications of opium were shown. He was very lucky that he had his doctor's prescription handy for codeine based pain killers common in SA but very difficult to get in the USA or he would have been flown home immediately and unemployed.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Yeah.

You'd be surprised how many things can shut down entire plant in process plants, especially things that can be operated by hand.

Oh, I'm well aware. I have managed plants, manual and SCADA where I had override authority.

 

[buka001]

"Labour costs (for fruit pickers) meanwhile have risen from £7 an hour five years ago to £10.10 today"

That's R1700 pay per day for a fruit picker excluding pension contributions and holiday pay. Just over R35000 salary per month to pick blueberries. WTF!

Yeah, but cost of living in the UK is higher than SA, so doing a conversion is meaningless.

 

[buka001]

Most of the Blueberries we buy at shops in the UK are from SA and Peru.

And apples. Despite living in a country famous for apples and cider, a lot of the "Pink Lady Apples" come from South Africa.

And naturally citrus fruits as well.

 

[Sensorei]

Yeah, but cost of living in the UK is higher than SA, so doing a conversion is meaningless.

Far from meaningless. The minimum wage for a farm labourer in South Africa is under R4000 per month vs over R35000 per month for these Scottish farm labourers. That's 9x more.

No skilled trades are earning more than 5x on average in the UK what they would earn in South Africa.

 

[Willie Trombone]

Of course. When you pay £10 a day to labourer in SA and £10 an hour to a labourer in the UK and then still holiday and pension, it's much cheaper from SA.

30 Pickers in SA will cost you £300. 30 pickers in the UK will cost you £2400 for an 8 hour day. Then add the holiday and pension in the UK and you're looking at 10 times the cost.

OK, so why say "as in SA" when you've just pointed out major discrepancies?

Not overprotective labour laws that result in sheltered employment as in SA.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Yeah, but cost of living in the UK is higher than SA, so doing a conversion is meaningless.

A lot of things are cheaper than in SA.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

OK, so why say "as in SA" when you've just pointed out major discrepancies?

Explain?

 

[Willie Trombone]

Explain?

You said as in SA - i.e. compared SA to UK.... Yet you point out that the UK has stricter minimum wage and that's why SA people are still employed / can compete.

 

[surface]

Yeah, but cost of living in the UK is higher than SA, so doing a conversion is meaningless.

IMO, we can only know after putting costs in terms of % of income.

Now, I don't have idea how scottish farm laborers live. Let us compare R4000 in SA to 1640 pounds in Scotland. A room to share in Thembisa costs about R900-R1100, approx 25% of what domestics would typically get.

For comparison, in scotland, 410 pounds to share a room (25% of 1640) seems possible in certain areas?

Of course, this is just cost of accommodation. I suppose transport, food, clothing etc would be expensive in scotland comparatively.