Self defence will not be a valid reason to own a gun in SA under a newly-revived draft law

Should "self defence" continue to be a valid reason for owning a firearm?

  • Yes

    Votes: 587 95.8%
  • No

    Votes: 26 4.2%

  • Total voters
    613

ForceFate

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And arrest everyone that takes a stand? You think the jails/prisons and courts will be able to go after everyone?
They don't need to arrest everyone. However, will you be able to use the "illegal" gun freely to defend yourself against intruders?
 

ForceFate

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Privilege my arse. Before this stupid crap I could go and apply for a gun license for self defense. It’s my right to do so. Not a privilege.
There's no law giving you the right to own a firearm. As alluded to, there has never been such a law.
 

SAguy

Executive Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
8,238
They don't need to arrest everyone. However, will you be able to use the "illegal" gun freely to defend yourself against intruders?
Wasn't there a case in Canada where homeowners disarmed an armed intruder, shot his accomplice and then were charged with illegally using a firearm and a slew of other things?

Not sure if the charges stuck but yeah, what if someone breaks into your house, you disarm him and shoot him - you've now illegally used a firearm.
 

alanB

Senior Member
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There's no law giving you the right to own a firearm. As alluded to, there has never been such a law.
This logic is completely wrong - because you assume that people have no rights unless explicitly granted by law?

What about blowing your nose? I don't remember seeing any law about that - so does that then imply we are not "allowed" to blow our noses?

The whole point of the concept of a FREE COUNTRY (which many here would seemingly not want), is that citizens are FREE do as they please, UNLESS prohibited by law - so that means the laws of the country do not grant rights, they define offences.

You seem to have become confused with totalitarianism. Or some sort of police state.

A couple of hundred years ago virtually everyone owned a firearm, it's only relatively recently that was regulated.
 

ForceFate

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Wasn't there a case in Canada where homeowners disarmed an armed intruder, shot his accomplice and then were charged with illegally using a firearm and a slew of other things?

Not sure if the charges stuck but yeah, what if someone breaks into your house, you disarm him and shoot him - you've now illegally used a firearm.
Wouldn't that be up to the NPA?
 

alanB

Senior Member
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Feb 18, 2008
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550
In the recent riots when the police and authorities were absent, and when some of us faced the real prospect of having our neighbourhood overrun by criminals, intent on burning and looting, we came together as a community to form some sort of community defence.

The police could not be relied upon.

It was the people in the community who owned firearms who were in ANY position to provide some level of deterrence, otherwise we would have been helpless, other than resorting to sticks and stones.

I would suspect that the people still clamouring to have the nation disarmed live in secure areas, and expect other people to face the mob on their behalf?

But the vast majority of the nation are not so privileged to live in secure gated communities, nor can they afford to pay armed guards to keep them safe.

It was very clear, when paw paw actually hits the fan, ordinary people are left to face criminals, all on their own. Disarming people just encourages criminal behaviour, not the opposite.
 

Dave

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This logic is completely wrong - because you assume that people have no rights unless explicitly granted by law?

What about blowing your nose? I don't remember seeing any law about that - so does that then imply we are not "allowed" to blow our noses?

A completely fallacious comparison. Can you be charged with possession of a nose? Are there laws relating to how and where you can possess your nose? Do you need to apply to the government for a licence to have a nose or to blow it? Let’s try and keep comparisons at least logical.

A valid comparison is driving a car, you have no right to do that either.

There is no right to possess or carry a firearm in SA. It seems too many people think the second amendment of the US constitution applies in SA…
 

alanB

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A completely fallacious comparison. Can you be charged with possession of a nose? Are there laws relating to how and where you can possess your nose? Do you need to apply to the government for a licence to have a nose or to blow it? Let’s try and keep comparisons at least logical.

A valid comparison is driving a car, you have no right to do that either.

There is no right to possess or carry a firearm in SA. It seems too many people think the second amendment of the US constitution applies in SA…
You miss the point completely, the ONLY reason why firearms are regulated in SA, is due to the Firearms Regulation act, which defines certain offences. If that act did not exist we would be able to freely own firearms.

It's got NOTHING to do with what you think are rights granted by law.

As much as you might want that, our rights are not all denied by default, unless granted by some authority. It's the other way round.

This is still a relatively free country.
 

Dave

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You miss the point completely, the ONLY reason why firearms are regulated in SA, is due to the Firearms Regulation act, which defines certain offences. If that act did not exist we would be able to freely own firearms.

It's got NOTHING to do with what you think are rights granted by law.

As much as you might want that, our rights are not all denied by default, unless granted by some authority. It's the other way round.

This is still a relatively free country.

Lots of word salad that mean nothing, fact #1, firearms have been legislated for for most of people posting here’s lifetimes, they have only been a privilege in all that time. The ANC Government has not changed that, they have simply made it more difficult to qualify for the privilege.

Fact #2, you have no right to keep or carry a firearm. You can be refused an application to possess or have a licence to possess one cancelled at any time. As unpalatable as you may find that, it is the truth,
 

George Netherby

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May 4, 2021
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Lots of word salad that mean nothing, fact #1, firearms have been legislated for for most of people posting here’s lifetimes, they have only been a privilege in all that time. The ANC Government has not changed that, they have simply made it more difficult to qualify for the privilege.

Fact #2, you have no right to keep or carry a firearm. You can be refused an application to possess or have a licence to possess one cancelled at any time. As unpalatable as you may find that, it is the truth,
You don't seem to concerned by the state of the country and the risk that it's citizens face everyday. Are you even in this country, or are you barking from the comfort of a 1st world country?
 

ForceFate

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You don't seem to concerned by the state of the country and the risk that it's citizens face everyday. Are you even in this country, or are you barking from the comfort of a 1st world country?
He doesn't claim to be unaffected.
 

Dave

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You don't seem to concerned by the state of the country and the risk that it's citizens face everyday.

I am passing no comment on the dangers of having to live with the current crime dangers in South Africa. I understand why people are fearful of the possible outcome of the removal of firearms as a method of self defence but that doesn’t change the issue of the fantasists and geevees who think they can take on the government, the police or the army to retain possession of those firearms once the govt declares them illlegal.

Are you even in this country, or are you barking from the comfort of a 1st world country?

As I’ve already posted in this thread, I saw the writing on the wall and removed myself and my family from these dangers. That doesn’t change the fact that I likely have more experience and knowledge of the situation due to my previous jobs, especially when compared to some of the youths with guns who post on this forum from a position of deluded ignorance.

They seem to think they will use some god given right to keep their glock and take on the entire SAPS to defend this “right”. There will be only one outcome in that scenario and gods little fighter will be on the losing side.
 

alanB

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
550
Lots of word salad that mean nothing, fact #1, firearms have been legislated for for most of people posting here’s lifetimes, they have only been a privilege in all that time. The ANC Government has not changed that, they have simply made it more difficult to qualify for the privilege.

Fact #2, you have no right to keep or carry a firearm. You can be refused an application to possess or have a licence to possess one cancelled at any time. As unpalatable as you may find that, it is the truth,
Short version - you didn't understand what I was saying...

Missed the point.
 

Dave

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Short version - you didn't understand what I was saying...

Missed the point.

Oh, I read it and understood what you wanted to think. Unfortunately it has no bearing on the reality you live in.
 

alanB

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
550
Ok I'll try again...

Your facts 1 and 2 simply agree with my point.

So what is yours?
 
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