Series [Please do NOT post any spoilers] - Episode V

MightyQuin

Not amused...
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
26,597
Thoughtless racial casting is a blight and leads to stupid decisions like casting Scarlett Johansson as a Japanese anime character and hoping nobody notices. Casting Anne Boleyn as a black woman is certainly going to make people pay attention and I don't know if the show will be any good but at least it succeeded at getting you to feel victimized by it so it did something right.
The irony here is overwhelming:

Whitewashing characters is still happening, btw. Christian Bale played Moses in 2014. Johnny Depp played Tonto in 2013. Scarlett Johansson played Motoko Kusanagi in 2017

People lose their schit about the above...and it is OK and correct to do so.
Anne Boleyn is cast as a black woman: why is everybody upset?

So can all the spindoctors just explain something very simply/easily?

If it was/is so wrong for e.g. Johny Depp to portray a Native American, why is there nothing wrong with a black Anne Boleyn?

What is the difference...apart from reperations that has been hinted at of course?
 

cerebus

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
45,747
No no...answer the question please.

Stop the facetious chirping and creating circumstances to suit your own thin and precarious argument.

We've covered this....arguing facts and making points do not = whining, no matter how hard you try.

I don't think Anne Boleyn is trying to come up with any solutions. It's just making a commentary - and perhaps it isn't even doing that and I'm just making an assumption about their intention - on the fact that racial miscasting happens all the time with white actors so what's the issue with it going the other way? And really what is the issue? It's historically inaccurate? Who even cares about that?

Do you think someone's going to leave that show thinking that Anne Boleyn was actually a black woman, and somehow this is going to wreck their understanding of history? I'm struggling to see what harm is done and why you're taking such issue with it, and particularly why your umbrage is so one-sided.

To me there seems to be a perfectly valid artistic rationale for deliberate racial miscasting because it raises an issue that doesn't get confronted the way it should.

You seemed to focus on my role in the forum more than anything else.

What's your point?

The irony here is overwhelming:



People lose their schit about the above...and it is OK and correct to do so.
Anne Boleyn is cast as a black woman: why is everybody upset?

So can all the spindoctors just explain something very simply/easily?

If it was/is so wrong for e.g. Johny Depp to portray a Native American, why is there nothing wrong with a black Anne Boleyn?

What is the difference...apart from reperations that has been hinted at of course?

The difference is crucial and I've said it over and over again - ARTISTIC INTENTION. Deliberately using racial miscasting to highlight stupid thoughtless miscasting in Hollywood.
 

MightyQuin

Not amused...
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
26,597
I don't think Anne Boleyn is trying to come up with any solutions. It's just making a commentary - and perhaps it isn't even doing that and I'm just making an assumption about artistic intention - on the fact that racial miscasting happens all the time with white actors so what's the issue with it going the other way? And really what is the issue? It's historically inaccurate? Who even cares about that?

Do you think someone's going to leave that show thinking that Anne Boleyn was actually a black woman, and somehow this is going to wreck their understanding of history? I'm struggling to see what harm is done and why you're taking such issue with it, and particularly why your umbrage is so one-sided.

To me there seems to be a perfectly valid artistic rationale for deliberate racial miscasting because it raises an issue that doesn't get confronted the way it should.



What's your point?
the context is what matters, as always. Is the individual's race central to their story? Then it matters.
Whitewashing characters is still happening, btw. Christian Bale played Moses in 2014. Johnny Depp played Tonto in 2013. Scarlett Johansson played Motoko Kusanagi in 2017. Was their CORRECT color not relevant?

You're so hypocritical it's mind boggling....

You just hop from one side of the argument to the other, as it suits you from post to post.

Finally you irrelevance in this thread...and this forum for that matter, has been exposed.
 

cerebus

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
45,747
You're so hypocritical it's mind boggling....

You just hop from one side of the argument to the other, as it suits you from post to post.

Finally you irrelevance in this thread...and this forum for that matter, has been exposed.

Suit yourself MQ. I've made my point pretty well, not sure what else I can say on this topic without beating it to death.
 

rambo919

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
18,567
You're so hypocritical it's mind boggling....

You just hop from one side of the argument to the other, as it suits you from post to post.

Finally you irrelevance in this thread...and this forum for that matter, has been exposed.
It's not even funny anymore how "whitewashing" is racist but "blackwashing" does not exist.
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
45,913
Casting Anne Boleyn as a black woman is certainly going to make people pay attention and I don't know if the show will be any good but at least it succeeded at getting you to feel victimized by it so it did something right.

Wowee! You sure gave yourself an erection with that one.
 

daveza

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
45,354
Well I would like to whine about how far back I have go to reach Friday's TV listings

Probably 3 mouse clicks, but I know it's a burden.

That said I'm sure a little diversion from just lists from time to time is okay.
 

MightyQuin

Not amused...
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
26,597
Well I would like to whine about how far back I have go to reach Friday's TV listings

Fri, 12. Feb

A Discovery of Witches S02E06
Ancient Aliens S16E06
Are You Afraid of the Dark? E95
Blue Bloods S11E07
Bubble Guppies S05E16
Bunk'd S05E05
Clifford the Big Red Dog S01E34
Clifford the Big Red Dog S01E35
Clifford the Big Red Dog S01E36
Death In Paradise S10E07
Dickinson S02E08
Druck S06E09
Gold Rush S11E16
Gold Rush: White Water S04E11
Into the Dark S02E11
It's a Sin S01E04
Love After Lockup S03E30
MacGyver 2016 S05E08
Magnum P.I. S03E08
Painting with John S01E04
Real Time with Bill Maher S19E05
Ridiculousness S20E05
Servant S02E05
The Blacklist S08E06
The Graham Norton Show S28E17
The Kelly Clarkson Show S02E93
The Last Leg S21E05
When They Cry S05E19
 

Neoprod

Honorary Master
Joined
May 21, 2004
Messages
18,941
There could be a valid artistic reason to change the race of someone. The intention is everything. Thoughtless racial casting is a blight and leads to stupid decisions like casting Scarlett Johansson as a Japanese anime character and hoping nobody notices. Casting Anne Boleyn as a black woman is certainly going to make people pay attention and I don't know if the show will be any good but at least it succeeded at getting you to feel victimized by it so it did something right.

While I agree with the gist of what you're saying, the Major is a cyborg and the shell could be anything (in fact, the manga and anime depictions of Motoko are varying degrees of round-eyed). The movie chose a high-profile actress probably because, by and large, sci-fi properties fail to generate ticket sales. Can we blame the money men for trying to hang their investment onto a name actor? They definitely could have gotten someone less expensive if they thought it wasn't necessary to have a name.

I found the complaints about Scarlet Johannson getting the role pretty short-sighted. The actual problem was the complete gutting of the existentialism that made the anime work so well.

I hope the Anne Boleyn series isn't a straight-up retelling because that would waste the opportunity to maybe use the actress like the sheriff in Blazing Saddles...make some points about class / privilege / race within the usual history everyone's accustomed to. It would be disappointing if it is stunt casting for shock effect. That's just tokenism.

But we can't know that till we've seen the property. Which makes the complaints about the casting childish (in my view).
 

daveza

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
45,354
But we can't know that till we've seen the property. Which makes the complaints about the casting childish (in my view).

The writer and producer claim the series will 'challenge all the conventions of who we think Anne Boleyn was'

What conventions are being challenged by portraying an historical icon, who was decidedly fair skinned and a native of the island, as a black-skinned woman, very few, if any, of which were ever seen in England at the time. ?

You can take for example Churchill, and portray him as a racist bully instead of a heroic war time Prime Minister, or closer to home, portray Mandela as a ruthless terrorist instead of the usual benevolent messiah - there is more than one side to any famous/notorious figure.

But I find the concept of a black Anne Boleyn just as implausible as a white Madiba, and frankly it just reeks of 'oh look at us, we are so out there and woke'. :sick:


It's not a comedy, it's not a parody - Ann Boleyn was white, not a black feminist.

The sad thing is thousands of British TV watchers, and millions of American viewers will go forth sprouting 'wow, I didn't know Anne Boleyn was black'.

If it was a Twitter or Facebook post it would come with a Fake News rubber stamp.
 

cerebus

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
45,747
While I agree with the gist of what you're saying, the Major is a cyborg and the shell could be anything (in fact, the manga and anime depictions of Motoko are varying degrees of round-eyed). The movie chose a high-profile actress probably because, by and large, sci-fi properties fail to generate ticket sales. Can we blame the money men for trying to hang their investment onto a name actor? They definitely could have gotten someone less expensive if they thought it wasn't necessary to have a name.

I found the complaints about Scarlet Johannson getting the role pretty short-sighted. The actual problem was the complete gutting of the existentialism that made the anime work so well.

I hope the Anne Boleyn series isn't a straight-up retelling because that would waste the opportunity to maybe use the actress like the sheriff in Blazing Saddles...make some points about class / privilege / race within the usual history everyone's accustomed to. It would be disappointing if it is stunt casting for shock effect. That's just tokenism.

But we can't know that till we've seen the property. Which makes the complaints about the casting childish (in my view).

I simply fail to see any difference between say, casting Johnny Depp as Tonto, and this. If anything this is making a kind of statement where Tonto was just stupid and insulting. And I don’t remember seeing any of these same members making a peep about any other racial miscastings, but suddenly a black person gets cast as an obviously white figure and it’s pearl clutching and outrage all round.

I agree with you about Johansson, tbh I never cared that much because it’s just a bad movie on its own merit. Hopefully we’ll be able to judge Anne Boleyn the same way.
 

Neoprod

Honorary Master
Joined
May 21, 2004
Messages
18,941
The writer and producer claim the series will 'challenge all the conventions of who we think Anne Boleyn was'

What conventions are being challenged by portraying an historical icon, who was decidedly fair skinned and a native of the island, as a black-skinned woman, very few, if any, of which were ever seen in England at the time. ?

You can take for example Churchill, and portray him as a racist bully instead of a heroic war time Prime Minister, or closer to home, portray Mandela as a ruthless terrorist instead of the usual benevolent messiah - there is more than one side to any famous/notorious figure.

But I find the concept of a black Anne Boleyn just as implausible as a white Madiba, and frankly it just reeks of 'oh look at us, we are so out there and woke'. :sick:


It's not a comedy, it's not a parody - Ann Boleyn was white, not a black feminist.

The sad thing is thousands of British TV watchers, and millions of American viewers will go forth sprouting 'wow, I didn't know Anne Boleyn was black'.

If it was a Twitter or Facebook post it would come with a Fake News rubber stamp.

You have a peculiarly-narrow view of storytelling, dave. Reminds me of the aliens in Galaxy Quest and their historical documents :laugh:
 
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