Sexism fears hamper brain research

[Alan]

Scientists’ fear of being labelled sexist is putting women’s health at risk because researchers have ignored crucial gender differences in the brain, it has been claimed.

Male and female brains react differently to drugs when it comes to some conditions, such as strokes, but research predominantly concentrates on men, the guest editor of this month’s Journal of Neuroscience Research said. The research is then generalised and widened out for women, despite there being evidence gender “matters fundamentally, powerfully and pervasively”.Scientists have widely failed to highlight the differences for fear of being “a pariah in the eyes of neuroscience mainstream”, possibly to the detriment of women’s health, it was claimed.

According to The Times, neurobiologist Larry Cahill, from the University of California Irvine, said for years the assumption had been that “once you get outside of reproductive functions, what you find in males and females is fundamentally the same and therefore there is no reason to study both sexes - and beyond that it is not good to study females as they have pesky circulating hormones”. He added that the last two decades had proven the assumption as “false, false, false”. “The heart of the resistance is the view that if neuroscience shows males and females are not the same in brain function, we are showing they are not equal. That is false,” he said.

One example Prof Cahill gave was Alzheimer’s, where apoptosis - the process of programmed cell death - occurs differently in men and women. Scientists looking into the process and coming up with drugs to deal with the illness “would damn well be aware of the differences”, he added.It was added that in some drugs testing cases, these generalisations may have instead put men’s health at risk. Lazaroids, a rejected stroke treatment, may have worked for men but was deemed as no longer working after being used on both sexes.

Eric Prager, the editor of the journal, said in the future any submissions would have to state the sex of the subjects used, as well as an explanation of why this is the case

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...m-fears-putting-womens-health-risk-scientist/

 

[Chevron]

Good job sjws.

 

[Slootvreter]

Jesus

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

Call me picky, but that line about "..crucial gender differences.." should really read "..crucial sex-based differences..", but whatever.

So. Differently sexed bodies are different. Is this what they are saying? What a shocker.

 

[konfab]

If SJWs believe that a woman can be born in a man's body, then surely that means they already accept that men and woman have different brains.

 

[Xarog]

Call me picky, but that line about "..crucial gender differences.." should really read "..crucial sex-based differences..", but whatever.

So. Differently sexed bodies are different. Is this what they are saying? What a shocker.

Yeah, but a person with female genetalia but a masculinised brain will likely have a male gender identity, and vice versa.

 

[Slootvreter]

Yeah, but a person with female genetalia but a masculinised brain will likely have a male gender identity, and vice versa.

Yes, and don't dare assume a woman is in fact a woman

 

[Aghori]

Yeah, but a person with female genetalia but a masculinised brain will likely have a male gender identity, and vice versa.

There's no such thing as "Gender identity". If you have a penis youre a man and if you have a vagina you're a woman. If you "feel" any other way, then you need help and psychological assistance.

 

[Xarog]

There's no such thing as "Gender identity". If you have a penis youre a man and if you have a vagina you're a woman. If you "feel" any other way, then you need help and psychological assistance.

Wrong.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._2D4D_in_Adults_with_Gender_Identity_Disorder
https://www.change.org/p/the-us-foo...-pregnancy-can-cause-intersex-and-transgender
http://www.hormonesmatter.com/hormone-treatment-pregnancy-gender-variance/

It is well established that sexual identity, gender identity and just plain full-blown sexual identity is not dependent primarily upon genetics or chromosomes, but by hormone levels in the uterus during gestation. Individual cells in the body expressed masculinised or feminised development patterns based on the cues they take from these hormone levels.

 

[Idiosyncratic]

Wrong.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._2D4D_in_Adults_with_Gender_Identity_Disorder
https://www.change.org/p/the-us-foo...-pregnancy-can-cause-intersex-and-transgender
http://www.hormonesmatter.com/hormone-treatment-pregnancy-gender-variance/

It is well established that sexual identity, gender identity and just plain full-blown sexual identity is not dependent primarily upon genetics or chromosomes, but by hormone levels in the uterus during gestation. Individual cells in the body expressed masculinised or feminised development patterns based on the cues they take from these hormone levels.

But this argument nullifies the OP. We'll need new study into what will work for "females with male brains" (and vice versa). Medications that work for men and not so well for women should then work fine for "male brained individuals". I'm referring specifically to brain related diseases.

Now, my personal theory is that adults who are transgender's brains adapted over the years as opposed to being "born that way". There's been some neurological research that has demonstrated that the brain simply becomes what the individual believes is so (granted, this wasn't done in a gender identity context). What you believe you are is what you'll become - your neurological pathways will adapt accordingly. But I'll leave this aside for another day.

/inb4 "your personal opinion is discriminatory"

 

[Xarog]

But this argument nullifies the OP.

It doesn't nullify it, it reinforces it. There are real differences between the brains of men and women, and these differences are influenced by a variety of factors, not limited simply to chromosomes and hormone balances.

We'll need new study into what will work for "females with male brains" (and vice versa). Medications that work for men and not so well for women should then work fine for "male brained individuals". I'm referring specifically to brain related diseases.

Maybe, maybe not. There's all sorts of other biological complications. The fact that women have two X chromosomes, for example, has large implications with respect to the way the immune system functions.

Now, my personal theory is that adults who are transgender's brains adapted over the years as opposed to being "born that way". There's been some neurological research that has demonstrated that the brain simply becomes what the individual believes is so (granted, this wasn't done in a gender identity context). What you believe you are is what you'll become - your neurological pathways will adapt accordingly. But I'll leave this aside for another day.

Yeah, that's wrong. People show distinct differences in their personalities from day 1 of birth, and those differences aren't something you can "teach" away.

/inb4 "your personal opinion is discriminatory"

Swinging to miss.

 

[Idiosyncratic]

It doesn't nullify it, it reinforces it. There are real differences between the brains of men and women, and these differences are influenced by a variety of factors, not limited simply to chromosomes and hormone balances.



Maybe, maybe not. There's all sorts of other biological complications. The fact that women have two X chromosomes, for example, has large implications with respect to the way the immune system functions.


Yeah, that's wrong. People show distinct differences in their personalities from day 1 of birth, and those differences aren't something you can "teach" away.


Swinging to miss.

I'll give you this, you are right about hormonal changes in the fetus due to hormonal treatment (and the like) before birth etc resulting in a more "masculine" girl or vice versa. What I believe though is this in itself doesn't and shouldn't qualify a person as having a "male brain" with a female's body (to use the common terminology that's becoming popular nowadays). Higher testosterone levels in females, for example, doesn't automatically create a sexual attraction or preference for the same sex... I have to agree with Shaun in that penis = male, vagina = female. At least in the strictest sense. What goes on in your brain, and how your neurological pathways form is still up to you. And that's where my theory comes in. It's possible to condition someone to become attracted to the same or opposite sex (and, I hate to bring this up, but it's the same way pedos can become attracted to younger members of the same and/or opposite sex or become conditioned to become attracted to older members of the same or opposite sex). Neurological pathways in our brain don't change overnight, but they are subject to change based on how and what we think.
There's a natural "order" of things... Whether we're screwing around with it too much is a different question. This is why I believe there's resistance towards the LBGT movement - not so much because of morals or religion, but because people fail to see how, despite violating the natural order of things, those who are part of the LBGT community find themselves to be very normal indeed. But you disagree with me on this point without scrapping the rest.
I merely believe mankind has an interesting way of dealing with some things that are interpreted as "foreign".
A friend of mine was born very feminine (it's a he ), hormones play a role here. However, despite being exceedingly feminine, and thinking in a way that may be more consistent with that of a female, he's 100% straight and has been since he could remember. He's a man, although certain areas of his brain gets utilized more as opposed to the average Joe. Society has made him question this (his sexuality and gender) at times, particularly as according to the theories regarding transgender he technically should be, but he's stuck to his guns.
Sex is utilized for recreation, among other things, but sex is primarily there for reproduction. This is the natural order of things, and while we can attempt to change it, we're not going to find one day that men become pregnant. Not without "help". I'm NOT suggesting that violating the natural order of things is morally wrong (there are other threads for those debates), but I've found that many homosexuals agree that what they are doing, despite being normal to them, may not be 100% in line with nature's (current) order from both an evolutionary and creationist perspective (whatever side you're on).

But heck, what did I say about not wanting to discuss this today? Oh right, it's past 00:00, I'm safe! I just want to say this again though, regardless of my opinion on the natural order of things, I'm not suggesting we ought not to "violate" it (sorry for the strong negative term) - that's up to each individual to decide for themselves.

 

[Xarog]

I'll give you this, you are right about hormonal changes in the fetus due to hormonal treatment (and the like) before birth etc resulting in a more "masculine" girl or vice versa.

I don't think you appreciate the gravity of what I am saying. I am saying that there are two patterns of behaviour encoded into our genetics. Which pattern manifests itself seems to depend on the testosterone/estrogen levels in the womb. By the time the 2nd trimester arrives, the development of the baby's brain with regards to gender identity and sexual preferences has already been set by biological growth processes and can no longer be changed or reversed.

What I believe though is this in itself doesn't and shouldn't qualify a person as having a "male brain" with a female's body (to use the common terminology that's becoming popular nowadays). Higher testosterone levels in females, for example, doesn't automatically create a sexual attraction or preference for the same sex...

We're talking about the effects of hormones that changes the way your brain grows, not about the relatively superficial differences that occur as a result of hormone treatments on adults.

have to agree with Shaun in that penis = male, vagina = female. At least in the strictest sense. What goes on in your brain, and how your neurological pathways form is still up to you. And that's where my theory comes in. It's possible to condition someone to become attracted to the same or opposite sex (and, I hate to bring this up, but it's the same way pedos can become attracted to younger members of the same and/or opposite sex or become conditioned to become attracted to older members of the same or opposite sex).

If one can be socialised to negate the gender/sexual differences that occur between people, then your argument is that there is no intrinsic differences between the genders/sexes.

It is precisely because these things are not in the nurture domain that science has a need to investigate to what degree the natural differences between man and woman brain/body types are, and the individual peculiarities of those that get stuck somewhere in the middle of the continuum between these two largely binary ends.

Neurological pathways in our brain don't change overnight, but they are subject to change based on how and what we think.

I don't believe you can't indoctrinate the gay, sorry.

There's a natural "order" of things... Whether we're screwing around with it too much is a different question. This is why I believe there's resistance towards the LBGT movement - not so much because of morals or religion, but because people fail to see how, despite violating the natural order of things, those who are part of the LBGT community find themselves to be very normal indeed. But you disagree with me on this point without scrapping the rest.
I merely believe mankind has an interesting way of dealing with some things that are interpreted as "foreign".
A friend of mine was born very feminine (it's a he ), hormones play a role here. However, despite being exceedingly feminine, and thinking in a way that may be more consistent with that of a female, he's 100% straight and has been since he could remember. He's a man, although certain areas of his brain gets utilized more as opposed to the average Joe. Society has made him question this (his sexuality and gender) at times, particularly as according to the theories regarding transgender he technically should be, but he's stuck to his guns.

A "feminine" man does not make somebody technically transgender. I suspect that the "theories" you refer to all come from the gender studies/social science branch of science, which is built on critical theory and postmodernism and is frankly a non-science at this point.

I prefer to get my information about the differences between the genders/sexes from neuroscientists, geneticists, cognitive scientists and personality psychologists.

For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala

Gender distinction

The amygdala is one of the best-understood brain regions with regard to differences between the sexes. The amygdala is larger in males than females in children ages 7–11,[14] in adult humans,[15] and in adult rats.[16]

In addition to size, other differences between men and women exist with regards to the amygdala. Subjects' amygdala activation was observed when watching a horror film and subliminal stimuli. The results of the study showed a different lateralization of the amygdala in men and women. Enhanced memory for the film was related to enhanced activity of the left, but not the right, amygdala in women, whereas it was related to enhanced activity of the right, but not the left, amygdala in men.[17] One study found evidence that on average, women tend to retain stronger memories for emotional events than men.[18]

The right amygdala is also linked with taking action as well as being linked to negative emotions,[19] which may help explain why males tend to respond to emotionally stressful stimuli physically. The left amygdala allows for the recall of details, but it also results in more thought rather than action in response to emotionally stressful stimuli, which may explain the absence of physical response in women.

Brain asymmetry is actually a marvelous explanation of some of the differences between men and women. It seems only natural that if one side of the brain can be in control over the other, that which side was in control would cause a dramatic change in the way you react to and act within your environment.

Sexual orientation

Recent studies have suggested possible correlations between brain structure, including differences in hemispheric ratios and connection patterns in the amygdala, and sexual orientation. Homosexual men tend to exhibit more feminine patterns in the amygdala than heterosexual males do, just as homosexual females tend to show more masculine patterns in the amygdala than heterosexual women do. It was observed that amygdala connections were more widespread from the left amygdala in homosexual males, as is also found in heterosexual females. Amygdala connections were more widespread from the right amygdala in homosexual females, as in heterosexual males.[57][58]

Wanna bet this trend only increases as we learn more and more about the way the brain functions?

Sex is utilized for recreation, among other things, but sex is primarily there for reproduction. This is the natural order of things, and while we can attempt to change it, we're not going to find one day that men become pregnant. Not without "help". I'm NOT suggesting that violating the natural order of things is morally wrong (there are other threads for those debates), but I've found that many homosexuals agree that what they are doing, despite being normal to them, may not be 100% in line with nature's (current) order from both an evolutionary and creationist perspective (whatever side you're on).

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. There's a developmental process whereby a couple dozen cells turn into a fully grown human being. There's a recipe that's followed, and for some reason hormone levels serve as the cue for which recipe is followed. Sometimes something interferes with the recipe and something unexpected happens. These anomalies exist, and they can tell us something scientific about the entire process. There is value in investigating them, but that can only happen if you acknowledge their presence.

But heck, what did I say about not wanting to discuss this today? Oh right, it's past 00:00, I'm safe! I just want to say this again though, regardless of my opinion on the natural order of things, I'm not suggesting we ought not to "violate" it (sorry for the strong negative term) - that's up to each individual to decide for themselves.

I would say let's first know what we are talking about before we start trying to decide if it has been violated.

 

[Slootvreter]

Tsek...

 

[Xarog]

Tsek...

View attachment 404978

Bring facts and a rational argument or tsek yourself.

 

[Slootvreter]

Bring facts and a rational argument or tsek yourself.

Nah. It's all turning to schit. One of these days you're going to have to be pre-approved to even adress someone.

 

[Xarog]

Nah. It's all turning to schit. One of these days you're going to have to be pre-approved to even adress someone.

All the more reason to retain your sanity while everyone else loses theirs.

You do realise that I'm not in any way proposing that we tolerate the infantile demands transgender SJWs make, right?

 

[Slootvreter]

All the more reason to retain your sanity while everyone else loses theirs.

You do realise that I'm not in any way proposing that we tolerate the infantile demands transgender SJWs make, right?

We are on the same page then.

 

[Idiosyncratic]

/snip

What I'd like to see is all this study reach a point where the brains of babies/children can be positively identified as being hetero/homo/etc... Except that's unlikely to happen. I agree that the brain structure of a LGBT person is different from a heterosexual - this is becoming increasingly indisputable (although not altogether indisputable yet). However, I argue that the vast majority of these changes occur after birth. How and what we think affects our brain structure and overall health through the creation of "well-traveled" neurological pathways. The old saying is true it seems "I think therefore I am". Your brain is extremely moldable and I argue that even as a heterosexual man, I can choose to become homosexual and my brain structure would change enough to show a noticeable difference between myself and the heterosexual me (no, not overnight obviously). This doesn't make homosexuality (or trans) less "real", we're just discussing the science behind some things.

When I was a youngster I had a friend (two actually) who questioned his heterosexuality (based on many things that didn't seem "right"). Had he concluded he was a homosexual, which at one point he near did, he would have become one. He would act/behave like one (whatever he interpreted was normal behaviour for one), and his brain would have gradually changed accordingly. Or would he not have been a "real" homosexual...?

Drat, gonna have to end this post now. Sorry that I can't discuss all the points you highlighted now, I'll provide further comment and references to studies made in the neurological field if I have time later.

 

[Xarog]

What I'd like to see is all this study reach a point where the brains of babies/children can be positively identified as being hetero/homo/etc... Except that's unlikely to happen.

Not at all. Neuropsychology as a science is still in its infancy. Expect sociopolitical paradigm shifts to come from this discipline.

I agree that the brain structure of a LGBT person is different from a heterosexual - this is becoming increasingly indisputable (although not altogether indisputable yet). However, I argue that the vast majority of these changes occur after birth.

Argue all you like, but research shows otherwise at this point.

How and what we think affects our brain structure and overall health through the creation of "well-traveled" neurological pathways.

Personality is mostly set at birth. Any parent with two or more children can tell you as much.

The old saying is true it seems "I think therefore I am". Your brain is extremely moldable and I argue that even as a heterosexual man, I can choose to become homosexual and my brain structure would change enough to show a noticeable difference between myself and the heterosexual me (no, not overnight obviously).

Just because the brain has plasticity does not mean it can rewire itself completely. Repression does not make the instinct go away, it just makes you refuse to acknowledge its presence consciously. If you want to go ahead and give yourself a psychological disease, go ahead, but you're not going to think yourself into being gay any more than you're going to think yourself into having an IQ of 180.

When I was a youngster I had a friend (two actually) who questioned his heterosexuality (based on many things that didn't seem "right"). Had he concluded he was a homosexual, which at one point he near did, he would have become one. He would act/behave like one (whatever he interpreted was normal behaviour for one), and his brain would have gradually changed accordingly. Or would he not have been a "real" homosexual...?

The easier explanation is that he was naturally bisexual, and falsely believed that he could only be homo or hetero.

Drat, gonna have to end this post now. Sorry that I can't discuss all the points you highlighted now, I'll provide further comment and references to studies made in the neurological field if I have time later.

I look forward to it.