SGS Censorship

[R4tt3xx]

Hi guys

Lets discuss censorship for a bit ie Freedom of Speech.

Recently I placed a post about censorship on the SGS forums, Saix Game Servers in response to an admin post concering Telkom and how SAIX is independent of Telkom. So I tested the theory by posting on the forums about "The Nameless Ones" following which the post was erased and I was "Punished". Heres the Admin Post I an refuring to

SGS's official stance on Telkom related topics is as follows...

While, as gamers alike, we might understand frustrations that you have with the current telco provider, they will not be tolerated on this forum. They are the ones that run this FREE gaming service. I wouldn't want to see posts like that draw attention to the forums and result in any discontinuation of service and support from Telkom. I'm sure you would all agree

On many occasions, we have requested that users use other forums to air their views in topics relating to Telkom; other forums which have proven to be more constructive in finding solutions to these problems and acting upon them. One of these such forums is mybroadband.co.za.

Any such posts that crop up in future will be removed without comment, and the original posters and subsequent people that reply thereto can expect to be punished. Said punishment may result in a forum ban and is up to the discretion of the admins.

Sorry that I'm coming down so harsh on this, but as stated in the first paragraph I'm a gamer like you all and would hate to see it backfire on us all.

Well at least this forum was mentioned, but I wanted to educate people, especially gamers about the shoddy services "The Nameless Ones" ie Talkom offers, now I cannot post nor see any posts on the SGS forums. How can I make a stink about this, what legal jargon can I use to combat SGS.

Oh Telkom makes mention of SGS in their DSL advertising and they are even indirectly mentioned in their DSL conditions of service/abuse.

 

[Arcadies]

i think its sad that telkom will advertise "GAMEING IS KEWL ON DSL" when infact it is NOT, and even worse is that in the same breath its marked as being "abuse"

 

[Toxin]

Unfortunately when you registered with the SGS forum you basically agreed to their rules and regulations. One of which was that they are allowed to edit\delete any of your posts. Also since it's a free service (i.e. you don't pay to play) you can't really complain.

The SGS admins enforce this very strongly not because they necessarily support Teklom and it's prices, but more to keep it the way it is now: a free service. Teklom could very easily scrap SGS if every second topic\thread is a Telkom bashing topic\thread.

It sucks but that's just the way it is. Use the forum for what it is, a games forum.

 

[RoosTa]

SGS have learnt how to run their dictatorship from the best : Telkom. I was banned off the forums for a similar reason; no warning, no email, no reason. If there were another decent gaming service such as SGS, they wouldn't be what they are today; bunch of idiots on a powertrip "protecting" their little virtual world. If Telkom did can SGS, they would lose alot of customers, since a lot of people did get their ADSL for gaming. Telkom on the other hand should use sites like SGS to listen to their customers - if only Telkom employees had more than one brain cell.

 

[Vie]

I was the SGS admin which posted the above quote on the SGS forum. at the following URL:
http://games.saix.net/cgi-bin/sgsbb/ikonboard.cgi?act=NW;f=55;t=30287

Toxin is pretty much summed it up there. What people don't seem to realise is that none of the SGS admins are Telkom employees. We're gamers first and foremost. Our adminship came in from our desire to help out where we can, to make the gaming service better. As a gamer, and having had ADSL, I've had my fair share of gripes and complaints. I know what its like to pay what we're paying, and to put up with the problems we're all experiencing.

We're just trying to keep the gaming service's forums as clear as possible from these Telkom bashing posts. Not because we're biased and are on Telkom's side, sometimes quite the contrary. We just know that Telkom already give us a lot of free reign when it comes to running the server. Think of it from their perspective... If they suddenly noticed that a free service they provide was being used as a vocal platform for everyone to air their grievances, to the point of flaming, would you let it continue? I didn't think so.

Now, please be considerate to the admins who give of their time to provide you at least with a better gaming environment, and rather not use SGS's forums for Telkom critisism. If you want to air your concerns, please do so, but please do so HERE. This website has a good bunch of people running it, who have your best interests at heart, and who are even willing to take things further, as has been proven with the ADSL hearings held not too long ago.

 

[stoke]

Aaaaaw - buncha cry babies.
Stop raining on their parade already.
If teklom does close down SGS i'm gonna come knocking on your doors and ask you to provide the alternative.
If you don't like it, don't go play there.
Their rules were pretty clearly defined when you signed up, and they have not changed.
Now go and fight over some worthwhile cause.
[+ what VIE said]

 

[RoosTa]

Also since it's a free service (i.e. you don't pay to play) you can't really complain.

I love the way people paint this as a "free" service. This is by far not "free". We need to pay Telkom for their line rental, as well as, you need to buy bandwidth from none other than Telkom.

 

[Vie]

LaRoosTa, what has that got to do with the topic, SGS Censorship? Engaging in a topic whereby you're trying to quantify how much you're "paying Telkom for SGS" doesn't change any of the points I've made in my quoted text, nor my reply above.

 

[Toxin]

I love the way people paint this as a "free" service. This is by far not "free". We need to pay Telkom for their line rental, as well as, you need to buy bandwidth from none other than Telkom.

Sad and true, but would you like to pay Telkom to able to play your favourite game as well? They could do that a whole lot easier then you think. Due to SGS a lot of people are getting ADSL to be able to play games, which only helps us in the long run cause the more people getting ADSL, the more people there are to complain about ADSL.

 

[R4tt3xx]

Fair enough, but the point is that I did not even mention a name and my post gets erased, I look like a fool, all because I questioned SGS censorship policies. It's silly. No wonder SGS admins get percieved as being Telkom employees. Same attitude

 

[RoosTa]

I was the SGS admin which posted the above quote on the SGS forum. at the following URL:
http://games.saix.net/cgi-bin/sgsbb/ikonboard.cgi?act=NW;f=55;t=30287

Toxin is pretty much summed it up there. What people don't seem to realise is that none of the SGS admins are Telkom employees. We're gamers first and foremost. Our adminship came in from our desire to help out where we can, to make the gaming service better. As a gamer, and having had ADSL, I've had my fair share of gripes and complaints. I know what its like to pay what we're paying, and to put up with the problems we're all experiencing.

We're just trying to keep the gaming service's forums as clear as possible from these Telkom bashing posts. Not because we're biased and are on Telkom's side, sometimes quite the contrary. We just know that Telkom already give us a lot of free reign when it comes to running the server. Think of it from their perspective... If they suddenly noticed that a free service they provide was being used as a vocal platform for everyone to air their grievances, to the point of flaming, would you let it continue? I didn't think so.

Now, please be considerate to the admins who give of their time to provide you at least with a better gaming environment, and rather not use SGS's forums for Telkom critisism. If you want to air your concerns, please do so, but please do so HERE. This website has a good bunch of people running it, who have your best interests at heart, and who are even willing to take things further, as has been proven with the ADSL hearings held not too long ago.

My gripe is: I stepped over the line ONCE in 5 years and I was life banned. I did not receive a warning, an email, a message - sweet f-all reason. That is the problem. Thats what I get for "supporting" SGS for over 5 years. Admins never seem to take things into context, they seems to have their mouse ready over that ban button of theirs everytime they open a post. Thats what I call "powertripping".

SGS why don't you become a part of the sollution, instead of a part of the problem? Wow imagine SGS standing up for the gamers?

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

Well from what I've seen, admins of SGS delete threads - even when it's not Telkom bashing but just the name "Telkom" mentioned. An example would be the ICASA Report thread (in the General Discussion Forum) and a cartoon by NRG_WP (#3 to be exact) which was deleted because he was having a joke of a BF2 plane "Crashing" into the 3GB cap.

So admins, please get some humour into your life.

 

[Vie]

R4tt3xx, by your own admission you're saying that you saw the message I posted, and then tested your boundaries. I'm sorry, but you should have known better.

LaRoosTa, Spamming the forums with messages telling people to cancel their adsl hardly seems to support that argument. Through all these five years, I'm sure you've come to understand our stance against Telkom flaming. My post as quoted above only served to put into writing our policies that we've followed since inception.

SGS can never fulfill that role. As soon as we fight back against the hand that feeds us, we will be removed. We cannot sway the minds of the policy makers, this has once or twice before been attempted, without any luck. We DO make a difference though as much as Telkom will allow us. We've gotten particular ports prioritised (when capped) to allow things like Steam and Novaworld authentication, so that people can still play games when they capped (yes, I know, its not perfect, sometimes people have to wait - but its better than not at all).

This is probably going to be my last reply and you can all flame my response to death if that'll make you happy. Just reread my first reply to this thread. I am a gamer.

Edited.....
Dominic, in our experience, any and all topics end up in flame wars should they even mention Telkom once. Everyone sees the opportunity to make themselves heard and flame Telkom. I have in the past always tried to rather lock the topics and refer people back to these forums for discussion. I don't believe this to be unreasonable in any way whatsoever.

 

[superjuice]

To Laroosta...

I love online gaming and I'd hate to give it up! BUT as of 1 Nov if "they" don't change their pricing structure, I will cancel my ADSL. It will be too costly to play games especially the bandwidth hungry BF2. (This also means that I'll have to cancel my WoW).

An email received with ISP's new pricing structure:
2 Gigabyte Shaped R 179.00
3 Gigabyte Shaped R 205.00
5 Gigabyte Shaped R 385.00
10 Gigabyte Shaped R 739.00
20 Gigabyte Shaped R 1450.00
30 Gigabyte Shaped R 2150.00 (Currently I'm paying R349)

4 Gigabyte Unshaped R 530.00
10 Gigabyte Unshaped R 1390.00
20 Gigabyte Unshaped R 2690.00
30 Gigabyte Unshaped R 3950.00

This will apply to all the "30gig" ISP's.

3-5gig with a hard cap (no local) is not worth a ludicrous amount of cash. Its not worth the entertainment I receive. I think I'd rather use that money to get married, buy a house and live a "normal" life.

As a last hope, and since "they" simply don't give a damn about their customers:

CONDITIONAL NOTICE OF TERMINATION OF TELKOMADSL SERVICE
---------------------------------------------------------------
In view of the revised pricing structure for ADSL services, when seen in the light of the published intent of Telkom to adjust its wholesale ISP pricing models with effect from 01 November 2005, as of 01 October 2005, 30 days notice of termination of contract and cancellation of TelkomADSL service is hereby given, details as follows:

Telkom Account Holder: ********
Telkom Account Number: *******
Telkom phone line number: *******

Should a revised pricing structure be offered by Telkom then this Notice of Termination is to be regarded as of no effect nor consequence whatsoever.

Regards
*******

Will the rest of SAIX members follow suit? The more, the louder!

Include this address: telkomwholesale@telkom.co.za
and put in a complaint at : http://www.telkom.co.za/app/webmastermail/

Laroosta, there's your post. I banned you btw. How can you expect any of us to allow a post like that on SGS forums, what does that have to do with gaming? Encouraging support for gamers to cancel their DSL is uncalled for. That is and remains their choice. There are forums SPECIFICALLY like this one to make posts like that, not on SGS.

 

[R4tt3xx]

Thats exactly why I posted it, censorship is a nasty thing. Freedom of speech is a constitutional right. Oh but when have Telkom ever given a heck about it... Read these forums, they will enlighten you as to what is really going on. It's not about seeing how far I can push people its about getting justice for all and battling oppression in all shapes and forms.

 

[Angellus]

VIE please check your PM

 

[Vie]

I didn't feel like formulating my own words as a response for this one, and instead found someone else's which will apply.

While most people on the Internet are ardent defenders of free speech, it is not an absolute right; there are practical limitations. For example, you may not scream out "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, and you may not make jokes about bombs while waiting to board an airplane. We accept these limitations because we recognize that they serve a greater good.

...

...while we may have the right to say more or less whatever we want, we do not have the right to say it wherever we want. You may feel strongly about the fact that your neighbour has not mowed his lawn for two months, but you do not have the right to berate him in his own living room. Similarly, if a webmaster tells a troll that he is not welcome, the troll has no "right" to remain. This is particularly true on the numerous free communications services offered on the net.

I think I was perfectly clear in my forum post about what is not allowed. I even offered for you to use these forums instead (which I congratulate you on doing - its the first step to better things happening). We were neither unfair, nor unjust in our actions taken.

 

[R4tt3xx]

Vie, Superjuice. You have made your points crystal clear to me on the SAIX forums. I will no longer be posting my views nor viewing any views and opinions on the SGS forums. Mybroadband is an open forum, posts will not be deleted if any snot-nosed admin decides to. I understand that SGS is sponsored by Telkom but that is no excuse for blocking open discussions on Broadband and the Internet in South Africa in general. It may not relate to gaming but it relates to the medium of transmission (ie internet)

 

[superjuice]

I need a kleenex... anyone?

 

[R4tt3xx]

This is turning out to be a silly cat fight. I have no more posts for this thread on the basis that I may type something that I will regret.

But I will add this, in my books, discrimination and censorship will always be associated with Telkom.