Share trading costs

[xrapidx]

At the moment I buy shares through funds such as Satrix IND, Alan Gray Balanced Fund through the actual companies.

I know Satrix charge very little - but they're a hassle to deal with (in over a month they have't changed my banking details after numerous emails, and forms sent to them, they now just ignore me)

I was wondering how the trading cost through a bank share trading account would compare to doing it through these companies directly, and if its worth it?

e.g.

If I look at Satrix last year, I invested R22,000 across various funds, the fee's charged were R153.38, that's 0.7% rounded.

Would I get the same from a bank trading platform?

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

At the moment I buy shares through funds such as Satrix IND, Alan Gray Balanced Fund through the actual companies.

I know Satrix charge very little - but they're a hassle to deal with (in over a month they have't changed my banking details after numerous emails, and forms sent to them, they now just ignore me)

I was wondering how the trading cost through a bank share trading account would compare to doing it through these companies directly, and if its worth it?

e.g.

If I look at Satrix last year, I invested R22,000 across various funds, the fee's charged were R153.38, that's 0.7% rounded.

Would I get the same from a bank trading platform?

It would cost you more. Std bank costs like R70 per trade (I think), then you still need to pay the monthly fee (something like 50 bucks).

So you're not going to save

 

[xrapidx]

I thought as much, it just seems like less hassle.

I currently have::
No monthly fee
0.5% of trade amount
R20 per trade.

(no live prices, 15min delay, for live prices its R100 odd a month)

 

[Rkootknir]

I thought as much, it just seems like less hassle.

I currently have::
No monthly fee
0.5% of trade amount
R20 per trade.

(no live prices, 15min delay, for live prices its R100 odd a month)

Remember, in addition to the brokerage you'll also pay the following when trading through a broker (Excel formulas):

STRATE: =MIN(54.59,MAX(0.005459%*Tradevalue,10.92))
STT: =0.25%*Tradevalue (Only when buying, not when selling)
IPL: =ROUNDUP(0.0003%*Tradevalue,2)
VAT: 14% on brokerage, STRATE and the IPL

Also, there is no STT when buying ETFs or warrants - not sure why.

 

[hellfire]

Remember, in addition to the brokerage you'll also pay the following when trading through a broker (Excel formulas):

STRATE: =MIN(54.59,MAX(0.005459%*Tradevalue,10.92))
STT: =0.25%*Tradevalue (Only when buying, not when selling)
IPL: =ROUNDUP(0.0003%*Tradevalue,2)
VAT: 14% on brokerage, STRATE and the IPL

Also, there is no STT when buying ETFs or warrants - not sure why.

Because you aren't buying the underlying share

 

[xrapidx]

**lost**

Anyone have a decent "English" book they could recommend on the topic? (trading for dummies or such)

 

[supersunbird]

Have you mailed the email address on after following the complaint process:

http://www.satrix.co.za/contact satrix/complaints.aspx

Those full retards at AOS sure jumped after I escalated my issue to the Satrix proper's people.

 

[xrapidx]

I requested they provide me with the complaints procedure as per that page, they ignored it.

If the complaint is relating to an investment at the Satrix Investment Plan, please contact AOS at satrix@aospartner.com to obtain and follow the AOS complaints procedures before escalating it to Satrix Managers (Pty) Ltd.


I'm now emailing the Satrix Managers, and asking that the email be treated as a formal complaint, thereafter it goes to the FSB.

I have now emailed them five times (since 4th of March), each time an auto-response was received saying I will be contacted.

 

[xrapidx]

Your private bank should have a trading platform for you.

You'll be able to buy and sell etf's, shares etc yourself from there.

They do... I'm trying to figure out costs.

 

[HavocXphere]

They do... I'm trying to figure out costs.

No monthly charge, but there are costs per transaction.

Last I checked it cost me 1.6% to moving both in & out of a share, assuming 10k invest. Obviously the percentage will improve on higher amts (R30ish seems to be fixed).

I was wondering how the trading cost through a bank share trading account would compare to doing it through these companies directly, and if its worth it?

Worth it financially? Depends on how good your stock picks are. If you're just starting out then probably uhm not all that great. It is way more of a learning experience than say satrix though.

Ideally you want a bit of diversification - but that won't fly at 22k. Split it any more than 2 ways max & the fees will murder you.

NB the platform is somewhat tricky - you need to specify the price you want to buy at & then the market either takes up your offer or it doesn't. So not exactly a matter of point & click. Let me know if thats unclear.

 

[Rkootknir]

They do... I'm trying to figure out costs.

Here's a simple example using a flat brokerage of 0.5%:

Buy 50 SOL @ R413.34

Trade value: 50 * 413.34 = R20 667

Brokerage: 0.5% * R20 667 = R103.34 (keep in mind that some brokers have minimum brokerage per trade)
STRATE settlement: R10.92 (minimum of R10.92, maximum of R54.59 or 0.005459% of the trade value in between - the minimum applies in this example)
STT: 0.25% * R20 667 = R51.67
IPL: 0.0003% * R20 667 = R0.07
VAT: 14%*(R103.34 + R10.92 + R0.07) = R16.01

So, the total cost of this trade is: R20 849 (R20 667 + R103.34 + R10.92 + R51.67 + R0.07 + R16.01)

This means the shares effectively cost R416.98 (R20 849 / 50) each compared to the base price of R413.34 which means you lose about 0.9% due to costs. Remember that for ETFs there is not STT.

If you are going to make regular, relatively low investments (e.g. less than R10 000 on a monthly basis) buying the ETFs using online share trading (OST) is most probably going to work out more expensive. However, if you are making large lump sum investments the OST will probably work out significantly cheaper due to the costs only being incurred when buying and selling and not on a recurring basis like when investing through someone like Satrix directly...

 

[hellfire]

**lost**

Anyone have a decent "English" book they could recommend on the topic? (trading for dummies or such)

If you sign up with Standard Bank's Online Share Trading, you get a lot of educational information on their website, as well as the opportunity to attend their free trading seminars

 

[DJ...]

Because you aren't buying the underlying share

If Pravin has his way that's about to be abolished. He proposes STT on derivative transactions as well for no rhyme or reason. No other country taxes derivative trades. JSE are vehemently opposing it though. We'll see what happens...

 

[DJ...]

You have a banker who can explain it to you.

And be sure to calculate your total round-trip costs and put this into a model on excel or whatever system you trade with...

 

[xrapidx]

You have a banker who can explain it to you.

I don't think its his job to explain what it all means, and how it compares to what I'm currently paying

 

[DJ...]

I don't think its his job to explain what it all means, and how it compares to what I'm currently paying

Of course it is...

 

[HavocXphere]

I don't think its his job to explain what it all means, and how it compares to what I'm currently paying

Just phone the call center if you don't feel like bugging the banker - they generally have answers too or if not will get back to you with one.

 

[Cius]

I am with BOE but that is a condition of my employment as I am in the group and they have to monitor us for insider trading. Anyways, the issue with going directly to SATRIX is you are then limited to only SATRIX products. A website like ETFSA is still relatively cheap while giving you access to all ETF's in SA. Up to about 1 million rand ETFSA works out cheaper annually than a stock broking account but for more than that the stock broking account becomes cheaper for long term holdings.

For me BOE is cheaper as I pay staff rates but if I was not I would probably be with ETFSA as it faster to switch to international ETF's if needed via them and they are cheap.

 

[Piesank]

If I look at Satrix last year, I invested R22,000 across various funds, the fee's charged were R153.38, that's 0.7% rounded.

How much return did you get and how much effort did you put in to make trades and what not? If I may ask?

 

[xrapidx]

Ok - now I'm registered to trade, apparently a little more complicated than I thought

Can someone explain the process? This is what I'm presented with.
Trade Details
Share code (I know what this is)
Price (c) (why do I specify the price?)
Quantity (obvious)
Available shares 0 <--- (Is this if I were selling?)

Trade Action
Buy
Sell
(obvious)

Order Details
Good for day
Good until date
Good until cancel
(I'm assuming this is to allow some sort of auto-trade)

How much return did you get and how much effort did you put in to make trades and what not? If I may ask?

for INDI specifically:
First Transaction Date 05-Dec-2011
Last Price Date where Market Value was greater than 0 09-May-2013

Closing Market Value R 21 416.60
otal Investments for the Period R 18 000.00
Total Reinvestments for the Period R 146.69
Total Book Value for the Period R 18 000.00
Investment Growth 18.98 %
Effective Yearly Return (IRR) 36.80 %