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Short-term apartment lets in Cape Town could be illegal

garp

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
6,045
#21
the city is not saying who may or may not stay in your apartment, that are saying what you may or may not do in terms of the land use & zoning applicable to the building
Beyond zoning apartments as residential with whatever density restrictions, it should be none of their business. After that the body corporate should be free to make whatever rules the majority sees fit within the framework of the sectional title act. The laws pertaining to hotels, are for.... hotels, not B&Bs. The truth is, the city is trying to protect the investment of the mainstream hotels as they obviously feel they are losing profit to Airbnb, but it is grossly unfair to impose the same bureaucratic requirements on an informal B&B as it is on a 2000 room R5k per night 5 star hotel. Perhaps if the hotels want greater occupancy they need to sharpen their pencils and take the local tourist market into account as well as come up with more innovative packages for lower seasons.
 
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
2,337
#22
complete rubbish
cape town has never had a shortage of tourists - going back long before the spawning of airbnb.
as to your opinion - the same investment properties have always been sold - long before the spawning of airbnb - but yea stellar logic from you - drive investors away from the country.

common airbnb problem in buildings:
noise
parking problems
litter
overcrowding
total strangers off the internet having complete access to the building during thier 3 day stay

if people want to run a hotel operation in a block of flats, they must be subject to the very same regulations as the hotels they are competing with - compete by all means, but on a level playing field
blabber, blabber, blabber.... those who gets their pockets burnt the hardest are the ones who will have the last say. Let's wait this out and see what happens.
 

Hosehead

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
7,834
#23
Pretty much spot on.

Besides, in my opinion, time for housing and rental prices to tumble in Cape Town. No better way than to keep them investment properties empty and force buyers / investors to buy elsewhere in the world.
Yes I like this
Too many Capetonians can't afford to live in their own city and even if we throw out Airbnb given we are in the most serious water crisis
So what? It will stop the seasonal floodgates opening to our scarcest resource.
Some People do anything to save a few bucks and with our sorry Rand we don't need added pressure from cheap ass Euro trash holiday makers.
 

infscrtyrisk

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
1,298
#24
So the COCT bans AirBNB, then 2 years down the line will complain about the lack of tourists.

If I were managing a sectional title place, I wouldn't ban AirBnB. Rather I would rather placate it by creating an extra levy for owners who want to use their apartments for short term leases. That levy can then cover the access control issues as well as paying SaturnZ's concierge to help them with checking in and out.

Stifling innovation is never a good idea. All the City of Cape Town is doing is protecting the pockets of the hotel companies.
There are a whole lot of problems associated with mixing short-term and long term tenancy. One of them is insurance premiums, because they have different risk profile (business vs residential). Another is physical security, having strange people move in and out, coming and going at all hours of the day and night increases risk tenfold (resulting in increased security costs). And, as pointed out before, demographics and behaviors are hugely different between travelers and long term residents, the former usually have no qualms about taking a dump on their front stoep. Also the risk of overcrowding and increased maintenance associated with drunken revelry. All of these issues create unnecessary tensions, which aren't needed. Lastly, the atmosphere --imagine going on a camping holiday and staying at a caravan park that has permanent residents. There's also nobody that I know who likes living in a Holiday Inn for any great length of time. The two residency types just don't mix, something that uncaring "investor" type landlords don't seem to get into their thick skulls.
 

saturnz

Honorary Master
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
11,492
#25
There are a whole lot of problems associated with mixing short-term and long term tenancy. One of them is insurance premiums, because they have different risk profile (business vs residential). Another is physical security, having strange people move in and out, coming and going at all hours of the day and night increases risk tenfold (resulting in increased security costs). And, as pointed out before, demographics and behaviors are hugely different between travelers and long term residents, the former usually have no qualms about taking a dump on their front stoep. Also the risk of overcrowding and increased maintenance associated with drunken revelry. All of these issues create unnecessary tensions, which aren't needed. Lastly, the atmosphere --imagine going on a camping holiday and staying at a caravan park that has permanent residents. There's also nobody that I know who likes living in a Holiday Inn for any great length of time. The two residency types just don't mix, something that uncaring "investor" type landlords don't seem to get into their thick skulls.
Nah according to some it's just about property rights
 

Zoomzoom

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2014
Messages
2,038
#26
If I remember correctly AirBnB started as a facilitator for home swops. You are coming to London for 2 weeks, I'm going to LA for 2 weeks, so you come stay in my pad and I stay in yours. Not really any different at the end of the day from getting a house sitter to look after your place while you are away. And it was never for super short periods - like one night. If I was in a complex or block of flats I would completely understand people being pissed off if the flat was being let like a hotel room with rotating guests every few days or less. Sorry but it is a private residence not a hotel. There is a huge difference in how someone will act if you are swapping your house with theirs for a week or more and if you booked into a 'room' for the night.
 

saturnz

Honorary Master
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
11,492
#27
If I remember correctly AirBnB started as a facilitator for home swops. You are coming to London for 2 weeks, I'm going to LA for 2 weeks, so you come stay in my pad and I stay in yours. Not really any different at the end of the day from getting a house sitter to look after your place while you are away. And it was never for super short periods - like one night. If I was in a complex or block of flats I would completely understand people being pissed off if the flat was being let like a hotel room with rotating guests every few days or less. Sorry but it is a private residence not a hotel. There is a huge difference in how someone will act if you are swapping your house with theirs for a week or more and if you booked into a 'room' for the night.

I'm surrounded by airbnb units, infact my unit is situated between two airbnb units and I can count another 4 within very close proximity, around 30% of the total building has been converted.

I don't have an issue with airbnb as such, but the BC structure has not been designed to cope with the traffic and risks that come with short term rental on such a scale, as you say its not a hotel.

Some sort of regulation is required, and since a BC (in practical terms) can't decide on these regulations itself, the City issuing a permit to this effect is the next best solution.

I have not seen the regulations, but I would expect them to be based on common sense, and if the regulations are onerous then perhaps one can debate whether the process was corrupted.
 

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
42,398
#28
Beyond zoning apartments as residential with whatever density restrictions, it should be none of their business. After that the body corporate should be free to make whatever rules the majority sees fit within the framework of the sectional title act. The laws pertaining to hotels, are for.... hotels, not B&Bs. The truth is, the city is trying to protect the investment of the mainstream hotels as they obviously feel they are losing profit to Airbnb, but it is grossly unfair to impose the same bureaucratic requirements on an informal B&B as it is on a 2000 room R5k per night 5 star hotel. Perhaps if the hotels want greater occupancy they need to sharpen their pencils and take the local tourist market into account as well as come up with more innovative packages for lower seasons.
you're failing to understand a few things
all properties have specific zoning which determines permissible use thereof.
for example, a property zoned as GR1 will have 2 parts in terms of use
1) normal usage (without consent) ie, residential accommodation, etc etc etc
2) consent usage (usage that requires consent from council) bnb etc etc
the various types of usage are very clearly set out in each of the above. anything that is not listed requires "departure consent" ie backpackers accommodation. very often departure requires application to change entire zoning.

now, within this framework are the legal definitions of various uses.
ie bnb - this is where there is a permanent occupant in the dwelling and this dwelling is the primary residence of the occupant
similar definition is applied to a guest house - the dwelling always has a occupant, and this dwelling is thier primary residence

where airbnb falls foul of the law is the fact that the entire dwelling is let out fully furnished and equipped without a resident occupant - and therefore falls under the definitions of hotels and tourism.
this is all good and well, but the city (as all others) has a "guest accommodation" policy.
under this policy various checks and balances are in place ie - health inspections, safety regulations, adequate parking etc etc etc.

so it is not only the above, but also the fact that airbnb is creating a situation where available accommodation for city residents is decreasing, and as such, demand is increasing.
the simple laws of supply & demand come into play - thus the spike in rental accommodation costs.

your comparison to hotels is disingenuous at best.
the typical airbnb guest in a R2000 per night apartment was never the guest in a R5k per night hotel with 24hr guest services to begin with
 

chrisc

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
6,803
#29
I used AirBnB when it just did house swops. A family from Huntingdon in England stayed here and we stayed in theirs, this was at least 6 years ago. All of us were thrilled with the swop, they even left us a car to use and filled it with petrol. A char arrived after 3 days and cleaned up. It was their first visit to Cape Town and they were mightily impressed
 

Grant

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
42,398
#30
blabber, blabber, blabber.... those who gets their pockets burnt the hardest are the ones who will have the last say. Let's wait this out and see what happens.
yadda


yadda


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as expected, your inane comment is devoid of logic or sense
 
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