Shots fired, journalists assaulted, as protest outside farm murder court case turns violent

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skimread

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Do you honestly think that a bunch of teenage boys carrying logs is in one camp for a week training camp is as big a threat as Mkonto Wesizwea who is trained in weapons and guerilla tactics ?

Mkonto Wesizwe is pro Zuma. What happens when the Hawks or the NPA charge Zuma or someone in the Zuma faction. What happens if the courts find them guilty?

Mkonto Wesizwe who wanted Ramaphosa arrested when he beat Zuma's ex wife to the ANC presidency

Mkonto Wesizwe that was marching against the current ANC leadership a mere 2 weeks ago.


Mkonto Wesizwe who were marching for Ace Magashule on a false rumour that he would be charged for corruption a mere week ago




But so many people don't cares since there are some 13 year old white boys who have a week survivalist training camp run by a racist old man. That is the real danger. If this survivalist camp exist there must be thousands more.

Tell me with a straight face what the real danger is to South Africa's democracy.

Let me guess, white military camps that must exist, but stay in hiding for 26 years just to cause terrorism one day.
 

Eric

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Do you honestly think that a bunch of teenage boys carrying logs is in one camp for a week training camp is as big a threat as Mkonto Wesizwea who is trained in weapons and guerilla tactics ?

Mkonto Wesizwe is pro Zuma. What happens when the Hawks or the NPA charge Zuma or someone in the Zuma faction. What happens if the courts find them guilty?

Mkonto Wesizwe who wanted Ramaphosa arrested when he beat Zuma's ex wife to the ANC presidency

Mkonto Wesizwe that was marching against the current ANC leadership a mere 2 weeks ago.


Mkonto Wesizwe who were marching for Ace Magashule on a false rumour that he would be charged for corruption a mere week ago




But so many people don't cares since there are some 13 year old white boys who have a week survivalist training camp run by a racist old man. That is the real danger. If this survivalist camp exist there must be thousands more.

Tell me with a straight face what the real danger is to South Africa's democracy.

Let me guess, white military camps that must exist, but stay in hiding for 26 years just to cause terrorism one day.
The same MK who were put in their place by a minister who wears my granny's glasses?
MKay.
 

skimread

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The same MK who were put in their place by a minister who wears my granny's glasses?
MKay.
It's not them being a militaristic danger. It is them danger to South Africa by
- demanding more benefits and welfare
- going on protests to support Ace, Zuma and anyone in the Zuma faction facing arrest
- forcing roads to be closed down during their protests
- protesting outside court
- threatening violence and undermining the justice system.
- police resources that have to be used at their protests
- supporting other groups in protest to gain alliances - creating mass protests that require even more state resources to control
- not giving a crap about the economy by pushing radical economic transformation
- pushing the narrative created by the Zuma faction that whites and apartheid masters own the current ANC government. This forces the government to have to be more generous with all types of benefits further putting South Africa in debt

Compare that with poor 13-year-old white zit face boys who play shoot making gun noises and carrying logs until they cry for a week training camp.
What is the biggest danger they pose? Singing "bobejaan klim die berg"? ruining women's magazines?
 

Fulcrum29

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Kommandokorps...

/snip
They are another product of government abandonment, like I said previously they served the Commando System until it was announced to be disbanded by Thabo Mbeki in 2003. The reasoning from the then ANC security ministry was that the Commando System played too much of a role in Apartheid to be operational today, this in addition to various allegations from the ANC which was never proven IIRC. What did they think will happen to these guys? The state left them, and they left the state. It is obvious that they then saw the state as a threat for their existence. After 2008, their final year serving, they started to train their own members.

The Kommandokorps still have operational offices in those regions, but I don't know if they help out with farm security in a commercial capacity. If they were going to be deemed as terrorists it would have happened a long time ago already. I don't think the state have anything on them other than critique. I mean the ANCYL, and others, also have similar training camps...

Most people will know, the day the Commando System was disbanded it wasn't very well-received by the farming community at all.
 
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skimread

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The Kommandokorps still have operational offices in those regions
Please post a link to these various offices. Or are they sleeper cells?

People of all races can go to a shooting range or a class that teaches self-defense. There are shooting ranges in cities, defensive driving classes, self defense, karate, MMA etc in all cities.

Guerilla tactics which the ANCYL teaches is something different that no public class teaches.
 

thechamp

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Ace is about to take out Fikile because of those tweets. So much for freedom of speech.

Fikile Mbalula ready to defend himself before ANC over MKMVA tweets (iol.co.za)

That will make the Zuma faction just stronger.
So someone who said the ANC of Ramaphosa is not the real ANC and the real ANC will be back in 5 years will try the disciplined cadre approach on Mbalula?

The same person who held unexplained meetings with Zuma in secret locations?

The same person who sits quietly and do nothing when the likes of Niehaus and Masina say whatever they like about Ramaphosa and the ANC government?

I would like to be in Luthuli house when that happens, it would be a sight to behold.
 

skimread

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So someone who said the ANC of Ramaphosa is not the real ANC and the real ANC will be back in 5 years will try the disciplined cadre approach on Mbalula?

The same person who held unexplained meetings with Zuma in secret locations?

The same person who sits quietly and do nothing when the likes of Niehaus and Masina say whatever they like about Ramaphosa and the ANC government?

I would like to be in Luthuli house when that happens, it would be a sight to behold.
It's chess. Ace could try take out Fikile for being anti-ANC or being a counter-revolutionary.
ANC always comes first and Fikile forgot this.
 

thechamp

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It's chess. Ace could try take out Fikile for being anti-ANC or being a counter-revolutionary.
ANC always comes first and Fikile forgot this.
Well Ace and his faction has also said things that could be deemed very counter revolutionary, don't worry, Mbalula is going nowhere.
 

skimread

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Well Ace and his faction has also said things that could be deemed very counter revolutionary, don't worry, Mbalula is going nowhere.
Who decides what is counter revolutionary?
Who decides who is right or wrong?
Who decides who gets a slap on the wrist and who gets ostracized?
They guys in power always decide.
They nominate themselves as the voice of the people.


It is the same in the workplace. The CEO makes the final decision and doesn't look what is right or wrong, but instead what is in his best interest. That is why nepotism is rife in all companies, irrespective of race. . Even if wrong the guy with most money can push his narrative and intimidate the weaker guy as the weaker guy doesn't have the money or connections for lengthy battles.

Currently the deck is stacked in favour of the Zuma faction. It's always been stacked. Ace and Zuma's ex the next two powerful. ANCWL, ANCYL, MK support Zuma faction. Zuma's PP is still there and the NPA was destroyed and still hasn't recovered. Ramaphosa didn't want to splinter the ANC so he allowed all the Zuma deployments to stay hoping they will eventually be exposed. It's a lose lose situation for him. That is why people call him decision less president. His mistake though is that the Zuma deployments looted the country into bankruptcy and created unaccountable looting and deployment culture that is continuing today and we have passed the point of no return. This opens the door to radicals like EFF who gained a percentage of ANC voters. The result is the ANC has to take on EFF policy because they have no choice. ANC's identity is being in the majority (and not policy that most people think) and they will refuse to lose majority. Hence they take on policy that is more radical and communistic. Now with COvid and the Zuma faction and EFF ready to attack Ramaphosa for not caring for the poor he has to give new grants. He has to blame whites and apartheid more. Add to the new poison pill grant that Zuma gave Ramaphosa of free university education and you create a culture of everyone wanting money. This is really dangerous. They will never accept a benefit they had before that is taken away.

We saw this with the EFF march when they interview the marchers. They want money. Land alone isn't enough


Where I disagree with the ANC is they say that farm murders are a symptom of unequal society due to Apartheid
My opinion is it a symptom of ANC policy becoming more communistic/African.

Your views?
 

thechamp

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Who decides what is counter revolutionary?
Who decides who is right or wrong?
Who decides who gets a slap on the wrist and who gets ostracized?
They guys in power always decide.
They nominate themselves as the voice of the people.


It is the same in the workplace. The CEO makes the final decision and doesn't look what is right or wrong, but instead what is in his best interest. That is why nepotism is rife in all companies, irrespective of race. . Even if wrong the guy with most money can push his narrative and intimidate the weaker guy as the weaker guy doesn't have the money or connections for lengthy battles.

Currently the deck is stacked in favour of the Zuma faction. It's always been stacked. Ace and Zuma's ex the next two powerful. ANCWL, ANCYL, MK support Zuma faction. Zuma's PP is still there and the NPA was destroyed and still hasn't recovered. Ramaphosa didn't want to splinter the ANC so he allowed all the Zuma deployments to stay hoping they will eventually be exposed. It's a lose lose situation for him. That is why people call him decision less president. His mistake though is that the Zuma deployments looted the country into bankruptcy and created unaccountable looting and deployment culture that is continuing today and we have passed the point of no return. This opens the door to radicals like EFF who gained a percentage of ANC voters. The result is the ANC has to take on EFF policy because they have no choice. ANC's identity is being in the majority (and not policy that most people think) and they will refuse to lose majority. Hence they take on policy that is more radical and communistic. Now with COvid and the Zuma faction and EFF ready to attack Ramaphosa for not caring for the poor he has to give new grants. He has to blame whites and apartheid more. Add to the new poison pill grant that Zuma gave Ramaphosa of free university education and you create a culture of everyone wanting money. This is really dangerous. They will never accept a benefit they had before that is taken away.

We saw this with the EFF march when they interview the marchers. They want money. Land alone isn't enough


Where I disagree with the ANC is they say that farm murders are a symptom of unequal society due to Apartheid
My opinion is it a symptom of ANC policy becoming more communistic/African.

Your views?
If the leader, being Ace in this instance is out of order, he has no moral authority to call anyone to account for their utterances, he is too compromised to be a voice of reason. Gwede was called many things but to his credit he never succumbed to petty politics, that's why he was able to have some credibility.

I don't know what informs the ANC's position on farm murders, I wouldn't want to elevate myself into some mind reader and try to explain what happens inside the mind of a murderer, but I don't subscribe to the notion that criminals are victims of some unjust circumstances be it apartheid or whatever, criminals are just criminals.
 

skimread

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If the leader, being Ace in this instance is out of order, he has no moral authority to call anyone to account for their utterances, he is too compromised to be a voice of reason. Gwede was called many things but to his credit he never succumbed to petty politics, that's why he was able to have some credibility.

I don't know what informs the ANC's position on farm murders, I wouldn't want to elevate myself into some mind reader and try to explain what happens inside the mind of a murderer, but I don't subscribe to the notion that criminals are victims of some unjust circumstances be it apartheid or whatever, criminals are just criminals.
This the mistake all the farmers are making.
They say the president, the police are not protecting them.
They are upset as they reported the stock theft to the Hawks.
They are upset as one guy was arrested 16 times already
They are upset the police get paid off by criminals.
This is all moral outrage.

A woman being raped, having moral outrage and want her rapist to admit he did the wrong thing after the act and take her to hospital. That will never happen.
A thief being caught, and you have moral outrage and expect him to realize in that moment he need to change his life. That will never happen. His regret is he got caught.

Moral outrage only is relevant if the majority has the same ourage. And they majority people don't have that outrage when a farmer gets killed.

Those in power decide the moral outrage. And the moral outrage they have is the outrage that keeps them in power.
The moral outrage that makes them not lose support.

Power, populism and politics. Not morals. That is morality for a politician whether you like it or not.
 

thestaggy

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Do you honestly think that a bunch of teenage boys carrying logs is in one camp for a week training camp is as big a threat as Mkonto Wesizwea who is trained in weapons and guerilla tactics ?

Mkonto Wesizwe is pro Zuma. What happens when the Hawks or the NPA charge Zuma or someone in the Zuma faction. What happens if the courts find them guilty?

Mkonto Wesizwe who wanted Ramaphosa arrested when he beat Zuma's ex wife to the ANC presidency

Mkonto Wesizwe that was marching against the current ANC leadership a mere 2 weeks ago.


Mkonto Wesizwe who were marching for Ace Magashule on a false rumour that he would be charged for corruption a mere week ago




But so many people don't cares since there are some 13 year old white boys who have a week survivalist training camp run by a racist old man. That is the real danger. If this survivalist camp exist there must be thousands more.

Tell me with a straight face what the real danger is to South Africa's democracy.

Let me guess, white military camps that must exist, but stay in hiding for 26 years just to cause terrorism one day.
Lol, after watching that ''march'' I don't think the MK is of concern. They look like they are all suffering with arthritis.

Remember at their peak as young men they got the snot bashed out of them when they tried to engage the SADF, resorting to attacking civilians and soft targets. Now I understand that the SANDF is a shadow of what the SADF was, but again, crippled old dudes larping as soldiers will probably still get the snot beaten out of them.

The real concern are the unemployed and unemployable youth. They are the ones being radicalised by the ANCYL and the EFF. 26-years of ANC failure has created a literal army of young angry people that are easily manipulated and they are being manipulated.

You take a look at what is going on in the US right now. The carnage is being caused by young people.
 
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ponder

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Told ya so...


Judge Celeste Reinders ruled that Pienaar should be released on bail of R15 000.

Judge Reinders found that Pienaar’s legal team, led by Advocate Jacques Potgieter, succeeded in showing that the 51-year-old former farmer and businessman was in fact not a flight risk as suggested by the state.

Reinders further dismissed the state’s allegations that Pienaar has attempted to influence witnesses as nothing more than concerns.

She further added that prior to the denial of bail, there was an agreement by the respective parties that should bail be granted it would be at R15 000. Hence the bail amount granted by the Bloemfontein High Court Judge.
During the appeal last week, Pienaar's legal team submitted that Magistrate Mlangeni erred in not applying the presumption of innocent until proven guilty as enshrined in the Constitution.

Potgieter detailed at least six factors to Reinders in which he says the Senekal Magistrate made certain findings without evidence. He said there was no evidence that the female court personnel was attacked in the October 6 unrest, and that the Magistrate misdirected himself in the evaluation of where the interest of justice lies by considering unproven, unsubstantiated factual findings.

In her judgment on Monday, Reinders agreed that Pienaar was indeed innocent until proven guilty
This trial is gonna be another fsckup as happens with these politically charged cases, watch this space...
 
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TelkomUseless

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Told ya so...






This trial is gonna be another fsckup as happens with these politically charged cases, watch this space...
Yip.. watch the EFF pitching up. Instead of fighting GBV , burned down schools etc.. they want to protest at the white man
 
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