Should businesses be offering discounts to vaccinated people?

Should businesses be offering discounts to vaccinated people?

  • Yes

    Votes: 231 53.6%
  • No

    Votes: 168 39.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 32 7.4%

  • Total voters
    431

jucedupp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
294
So much for the religiots. The mark of the beast is here, godbotherers. Pinch them buttholes.

The fact is: If you can help your community face less death and loss, and you don't, you are a total F-WIT and should not be allowed outside your house or anywhere near decent human beings, because you aren't one. I am done with these moronic anti-vaxxers, idiotic ivermectin-as-prophylactic promoters and general I'm-dum-as-cum-but-have-to-pretend-I-know-stuff-others-don't, conspiracy theorist, Dunning-Kruger halwits. Go F yourself.

With a splintered bargepole. If you can't "community", if you, can't "society" then F right off to Orania with all the other inbreds. Oh and let your co-dead bury your dumb @ss, coz we ain't touching you or the bargepole.

Businesses / malls / shopping centers should not even offer service to non-vaccinated people - with the exception of people who have such poor immune systems that the immune response triggered by vaccinations could be dangerous to their health. And this should be verified by a specialist, not their idiotic anti-vax GP.

Non-vaccinated people (who can vaccinate but don't) should not even be employed. I see them in the exact same way as I would see someone with Ebola thinking they have a right to go around infecting healthy people.

In the end, I should probably just Zen out and let natural selection deal with these anti-vax F-Tards and send them a Darwin award posthumously. At least this will have the very desirable effect of significantly rasing the global median IQ.

Just my (very kindly said) 2c.
 
Last edited:

PsyWulf

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
12,535
Medical aid and health insurance aren't even the same thing. Never mind some world wide standard that doesn't even exist.
Actually,educate yourself first before you waffle forward on an incorrect tangent,amusing as it is
Medical (aid) schemes isn't a worldwide thing,it's pretty limited in availability. So the international yardstick would be health insurance
Ex
Health insurance helps you pay for your medical expenses when you fall ill, get injured or become disabled

In local context there can be some confusion of course as there's a hard distinction made for legislative purposes and their requirements ( PMBs etc ) but effectively they are both meant to help pay for medical expenses

Now,onto the original comprehensile issue:
1629468713467.png

You pick a plan,you pick some optional bits,and you're covered at the Rand value indivated,no sliding scales here.
 

MoHaG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Messages
342
Businesses / malls / shopping centers should not even offer service to non-vaccinated people - with the exception of people who have such poor immune systems that the immune response triggered by vaccinations could be dangerous to their health. And this should be verified by a specialist, not their idiotic anti-vax GP.
Blocking access to basic services, like food might not be a good idea...

It might make sense to give non-essential businesses the option to operate at full capacity if they only allow the vaccinated in... (Incentives rather than force....)
 

jucedupp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
294
Blocking access to basic services, like food might not be a good idea...

It might make sense to give non-essential businesses the option to operate at full capacity if they only allow the vaccinated in... (Incentives rather than force....)
Blocking services to those who CAN get immunised but DON'T due to stupidity, IMO, a GREAT idea. Sometimes humans can and should be agents in natural selection. Blocking access to basic services for those who cannot get immunised due to valid medical constraints, I agree with, would be a bad idea, but they will need to become dependents or hermits.

Here is my argument. Zoonotic diseases are on the increase.

Caused by the spill over of pathogens from animal hosts to people, these events may have more than tripled in the last decade, with the number of new zoonotic diseases infecting people quadrupling over the same time period. Today, 60% of emerging infectious diseases in humans are zoonotic.

Look at the first major one we had: AIDS in the 80's. Then, thereafter, the time period required for a new zoonotic illness to appear has halved every time. If we follow that trend, we will, within the next 10 years, likely have an entirely new, unrelated zoonotic illness every single year, if not quicker.

My point is that we are now, as a species, officially in survival mode. No holds barred methodologies is the only way we will survive as a species. Unless, of course, some new disease kills off, say, 2-4 billion or so of us, drastically reducing the quantity of points of contact between humans. Which will likely just give us a 25-50 year respite before we have started breeding ourselves out of existence, yet again.

But if we want to remain more or less as-is, population-wise, we will have to institute mandatory vaccination for all who can medically have it, under threat of criminal justice if people try to circumvent it. And those who medically can't, will become our utter dependents, as we will not be able to reasonably allow them to work, go to school, go to shops or participate in human society in a manner that will not endanger everyone.

These diseases will also necessitate a return to small-tribe life, where the entire tribe achieves herd immunity, and completely isolates from the rest of humankind, those who cannot achieve immunity.

This disease and all new zoonotic diseases will become endemic unless we do this, and will, if left unchecked by measures such as I detail above, end in a storm of unrelated illnesses that will end this species. That in and of itself I think is not a desired outcome. So the only alternative is what I suggest, in some form or another.
 

MoHaG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Messages
342
Incentives are discriminatory and fascist I hear
Once everyone had a opportunity it is not discrimination on the basis of age, which is prohibited... (People's choices are fair game IMO)

One method is to allow non-essential businesses who ensure that everyone is vaccinated to operate without restrictions (e.g. full capacity, no mask requirements)

(Another option is to open up once everyone had a chance to get vaccinated and avoid the hospital problems (which also impact other things) due to an increase in cases, by denying admission for COVID-19 to the unvaccinated when the hospital approaches capacity) (That might not be practical though - COVID-19 cause a wide range of issues which might only be connected to it after admission)
 

PsyWulf

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
12,535
Once everyone had a opportunity it is not discrimination on the basis of age, which is prohibited... (People's choices are fair game IMO)
Just repeating inane rhetoric from the tinfoilers. I agree that businesses have the freedom to choose how to treat people that have the freedom to choose paranoia
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
30,117
Once everyone had a opportunity it is not discrimination on the basis of age, which is prohibited... (People's choices are fair game IMO)

One method is to allow non-essential businesses who ensure that everyone is vaccinated to operate without restrictions (e.g. full capacity, no mask requirements)

(Another option is to open up once everyone had a chance to get vaccinated and avoid the hospital problems (which also impact other things) due to an increase in cases, by denying admission for COVID-19 to the unvaccinated when the hospital approaches capacity) (That might not be practical though - COVID-19 cause a wide range of issues which might only be connected to it after admission)
How are you going to separate those requirements for business from those for public? Businesses will simply continue to operate with restrictions to get more business. The issue is that as this is no longer a free decision for the person neither will it be for the business as pressure mounts. The discrimination will become institutionalised which changes its nature and what should be allowable.
 

etienne_marais

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
11,717
The fact is: If you can help your community face less death and loss, and you don't, you are a total F-WIT and should not be allowed outside your house or anywhere near decent human beings, because you aren't one. I am done with these moronic anti-vaxxers, idiotic ivermectin-as-prophylactic promoters and general I'm-dum-as-cum-but-have-to-pretend-I-know-stuff-others-don't, conspiracy theorist, Dunning-Kruger halwits. Go F yourself.
But you don't, as a vaccinated person myself I can get the virus, have the same viral loads as the unvaccinated and spread it. It's just my own probable severity of illness that is lessened. If it is true that vaccination actually spurs on mutation then I am actually being selfish. Having said that, people are mostly admitted to hospital after having more severe symptoms (and the number of vaccinated being admitted is high) and many vaccinated still end up on ventilators.
 

MoHaG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Messages
342
How are you going to separate those requirements for business from those for public? Businesses will simply continue to operate with restrictions to get more business. The issue is that as this is no longer a free decision for the person neither will it be for the business as pressure mounts. The discrimination will become institutionalised which changes its nature and what should be allowable.
You don't require it... You give them a choice... E.g. run a concert with max 50 attendees or check for vaccinations (which probably require some kind of interface to EVDS that can give a yes / no for an ID number) and run it with 5000 people....

(Enforcement would probably require random checks and then full checks if non-compliance is found, with fines sized to put someone out of business to avoid people taking their chances)
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
30,117
You don't require it... You give them a choice... E.g. run a concert with max 50 attendees or check for vaccinations (which probably require some kind of interface to EVDS that can give a yes / no for an ID number) and run it with 5000 people....

(Enforcement would probably require random checks and then full checks if non-compliance is found, with fines sized to put someone out of business to avoid people taking their chances)
The requirements aren't practical. Like if masks have to be worn in public you can't say some businesses don't require them. Likewise if they aren't required in public you can't say some businesses require them. Other countries tried your approach and it's not working, they are now imposing the same restrictions with the vaccinated.

The only things you can go for are legal restrictions like the talks about not having liquor sold to unvaccinated. When such discrimination becomes institutionalised rather than a free choice it becomes a problem.
 

jucedupp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
294
But you don't, as a vaccinated person myself I can get the virus, have the same viral loads as the unvaccinated and spread it. It's just my own probable severity of illness that is lessened. If it is true that vaccination actually spurs on mutation then I am actually being selfish. Having said that, people are mostly admitted to hospital after having more severe symptoms (and the number of vaccinated being admitted is high) and many vaccinated still end up on ventilators.
Hi Ettienne

Firstly - vaccines do not cause mutations. Let's that nip that one in the bud - it's completely erroneous and simply not how vaccines work.

Mutations are always random, undirectional and unplanned.

Let me say that again. Mutations are not caused. There exists no mechanism for that to occur. There is no C-19 virus present in the vaccine that can cause the virus to mutate.

Second, vaccines help us fight viral infections - which cause antibodies - which fight the virus, should we comne into contact with it - decreasing the likelihood of infecting others. You will never, as a vaccinated person, be able to carry the virus to an uninfected person. If that were possible, Polio would still be a thing.

The reason why people end up on ventilators isn't actually the virus itself - but the body's immune response to the vaccine. Again, the vaccine does not contain Covod-19 viruses, in any form, but just a bit of it's dna (the harmless bit) - so that our bodies can recognize the virus for what it is - an enemy - when it comes along. When an infection from an virus occurs, (in the normal non-vaccine way) our body is trying to fight the virus by causing a inflammatory response that is supposed to alter the conditions inside the body to a level where the virus cannot survive. It is this inflammatory response that causes breathing problems. It is called a cytokine storm.

So what the vaccine does is is that it also causes the same kind of immune response - only lighter - by identifying the virus-dna for what it is, to the body, sooner and in a more controlled manner - but remember - the harmful bits have been removed - there is nothing there to mutate except a few strands of isolated DNA - not an organism that can mutate.

But some people have underlying conditions, that when taken in combination with the immune response, gets them in trouble. Those are the vaccinated people you are seeing on ventilators. They are not there because they have a Covid-19 infection, but because their body's immune response is causing difficulties for them because they have a known or even unknown risk factor that makes normal immune responses risky for them. For example, my mom has no spleen - so she cannot get the vaccination - as her body will flip out in response to the vaccine - but even then - she will have no Covid 19 in her system at all.

So next time you hear the idea that vaccines cause mutation, start slapping people - as this idea is what idiotic antivaxxers are spreading to scientifically illiterate people, and killing them.
 

etienne_marais

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
11,717
Hi Ettienne

Firstly - vaccines do not cause mutations. Let's that nip that one in the bud - it's completely erroneous and simply not how vaccines work.

Mutations are always random, undirectional and unplanned.

Let me say that again. Mutations are not caused. There exists no mechanism for that to occur. There is no C-19 virus present in the vaccine that can cause the virus to mutate.

Second, vaccines help us fight viral infections - which cause antibodies - which fight the virus, should we comne into contact with it - decreasing the likelihood of infecting others. You will never, as a vaccinated person, be able to carry the virus to an uninfected person. If that were possible, Polio would still be a thing.

The reason why people end up on ventilators isn't actually the virus itself - but the body's immune response to the vaccine. Again, the vaccine does not contain Covod-19 viruses, in any form, but just a bit of it's dna (the harmless bit) - so that our bodies can recognize the virus for what it is - an enemy - when it comes along. When an infection from an virus occurs, (in the normal non-vaccine way) our body is trying to fight the virus by causing a inflammatory response that is supposed to alter the conditions inside the body to a level where the virus cannot survive. It is this inflammatory response that causes breathing problems. It is called a cytokine storm.

So what the vaccine does is is that it also causes the same kind of immune response - only lighter - by identifying the virus-dna for what it is, to the body, sooner and in a more controlled manner - but remember - the harmful bits have been removed - there is nothing there to mutate except a few strands of isolated DNA - not an organism that can mutate.

But some people have underlying conditions, that when taken in combination with the immune response, gets them in trouble. Those are the vaccinated people you are seeing on ventilators. They are not there because they have a Covid-19 infection, but because their body's immune response is causing difficulties for them because they have a known or even unknown risk factor that makes normal immune responses risky for them. For example, my mom has no spleen - so she cannot get the vaccination - as her body will flip out in response to the vaccine - but even then - she will have no Covid 19 in her system at all.

So next time you hear the idea that vaccines cause mutation, start slapping people - as this idea is what idiotic antivaxxers are spreading to scientifically illiterate people, and killing them.
Thanks for the lengthy and non-bombastic response.

There are however professionals who believe that vaccinations can spur on mutations:

The new coronavirus variants have raised concerns about whether vaccines will remain effective against this disease. So far, the vaccines still seem to work. Although, scientists are keeping a close eye on a variant first seen in South Africa. But the vaccines themselves could drive the evolution of more mutants. However, NPR science correspondent Richard Harris reports, that's not cause for alarm.

 

PsyWulf

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
12,535
Thanks for the lengthy and non-bombastic response.

There are however professionals who believe that vaccinations can spur on mutations:

The new coronavirus variants have raised concerns about whether vaccines will remain effective against this disease. So far, the vaccines still seem to work. Although, scientists are keeping a close eye on a variant first seen in South Africa. But the vaccines themselves could drive the evolution of more mutants. However, NPR science correspondent Richard Harris reports, that's not cause for alarm.

To be clear that's a correlative effect,not causality
Vaccines do not cause mutations,mutations are always occurring. Which is why the yearly flu-shots can only slow down a selection of the "primary" strains
Put another way - on a level playing field you'd expect all players to get equal opportunity,on a vaccinated playing field the only players with an advantage would thrive
Mutations which are constantly occurring with some expressing stronger characteristics can become dominant when others spread less due to factors such as weather,temperature,or vaccines thinning out the competition

So again,the vaccines don't cause mutation,the continuous mutation of a virus that is not being prevented efficiently from spreading,reproducing and mutating (which lack of vaccination is contributing to) causes mutation - or at least highlights it
 
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