Should teens be able to go against the wishes of "vaccine hesitant" parents?

Should teens be able to go against the wishes of "vaccine hesitant" parents?

  • Yes

    Votes: 195 72.5%
  • No

    Votes: 51 19.0%
  • Other / Undecided

    Votes: 23 8.6%

  • Total voters
    269

rambo919

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I was trying to say you weren't ignorant, you weren't taught correctly, as many of us were.
The definition of ignorant is not knowing.......

And the point also goes further in displaying that even if you know it does not mean you actually completely understand.
 

Gyre

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The definition of ignorant is not knowing.......

And the point also goes further in displaying that even if you know it does not mean you actually completely understand.

You cannot know if you are not taught or have not experienced something.

Finances and moving away from family is far more complicated than deciding to take a doctor's advice on a single medicine or vaccine.
 

rambo919

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You cannot know if you are not taught or have not experienced something.

Finances and moving away from family is far more complicated than deciding to take a doctor's advice on a single medicine or vaccine.
You seem to be confusing ignorance with idiocy and wilful ignorance.

It is not an insult to say it was ignorant.... it's the simple truth.

I had had no exposure to finances except a useless high school accounting distinction. I knew nothing or real world importance. I was technically speaking ignorant, who's fault it was does not matter.

Another example is the ignoramussi that come out of agricultural academies.... who gets impressive distinctions but know NOTHING of real farming. Their ignorance was taught to them and only years of practical experience removes that disability.

Teenagers generally know nothing of both themselves and real life, they live in fantasies..... their judgement cannot even be trusted on a weekend nvm the rest of their lives..... most literally cannot think into the future because experience and brain development has not yet taught them how.
 

Gyre

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You seem to be confusing ignorance with idiocy and wilful ignorance.

It is not an insult to say it was ignorant.... it's the simple truth.

I had had no exposure to finances except a useless high school accounting distinction. I knew nothing or real world importance. I was technically speaking ignorant, who's fault it was does not matter.

Another example is the ignoramussi that come out of agricultural academies.... who gets impressive distinctions but know NOTHING of real farming. Their ignorance was taught to them and only years of practical experience removes that disability.

Teenagers generally know nothing of both themselves and real life, they live in fantasies..... their judgement cannot even be trusted on a weekend nvm the rest of their lives..... most literally cannot think into the future because experience and brain development has not yet taught them how.

I never said it was an insult, you are ignorant about something if you don't know about it or what to expect. Idiocy is to be presented with the same choices repeatedly but to continue to make the same mistake. You cannot experience something before you experience it, so a lot of people are ignorant regarding a lot of topics.

I agree, learning something in theory and then in practice are two completely different things.

Many teenagers cannot think for themselves because they live their lives being told what do to, where to go, what to be and are never given any agency to be their own persons. They take any liberties they can between all the expectations and daily requirements. They are also constantly reminded by authorities and people in society that "I'm the boss, you're the kid here."

The excuse of brain development is a tragic defense of culture and hierarchies in society, I have seen adults with "brain development" issues trying to operate new technologies or understand new concepts. A child's development with being ordered around and crammed full of useless info is no different to a child having to look at the back of a mother's head for years while being carried around, all to defend cultural traditions and old ways of doing things.

So people are ignorant regarding topics so long as we keep them ignorant to them.
 

rambo919

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I never said it was an insult, you are ignorant about something if you don't know about it or what to expect. Idiocy is to be presented with the same choices repeatedly but to continue to make the same mistake. You cannot experience something before you experience it, so a lot of people are ignorant regarding a lot of topics.

I agree, learning something in theory and then in practice are two completely different things.

Many teenagers cannot think for themselves because they live their lives being told what do to, where to go, what to be and are never given any agency to be their own persons. They take any liberties they can between all the expectations and daily requirements. They are also constantly reminded by authorities and people in society that "I'm the boss, you're the kid here."
The reasons do not matter, the point is unless you are able to make lifelong decisions you should not be able to. The party which has that responsibility makes those decisions.

The excuse of brain development is a tragic defense of culture and hierarchies in society, I have seen adults with "brain development" issues trying to operate new technologies or understand new concepts. A child's development with being ordered around and crammed full of useless info is no different to a child having to look at the back of a mother's head for years while being carried around, all to defend cultural traditions and old ways of doing things.
That's mental development, not brain development. Physically your brain is only fully developed by your early 20's, this is why it's so much easier to either indoctrinate or brainwash the young, their brains have not fully formed yet.

So people are ignorant regarding topics so long as we keep them ignorant to them.
At the end of the day the only person responsible for ignorance is the ignorant person him/herself. You cannot take the easy route and blame others for your own inadequacies when you have the power to overcome them.
 

Gyre

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The reasons do not matter, the point is unless you are able to make lifelong decisions you should not be able to. The party which has that responsibility makes those decisions.

That's mental development, not brain development. Physically your brain is only fully developed by your early 20's, this is why it's so much easier to either indoctrinate or brainwash the young, their brains have not fully formed yet.

At the end of the day the only person responsible for ignorance is the ignorant person him/herself. You cannot take the easy route and blame others for your own inadequacies when you have the power to overcome them.

Who measures a person's ability or worth to make a lifelong decision? I know many adults who have changed careers, marriages, countries and lifestyles. Nothing is set in stone. Teenagers should be encouraged to learn as much about the real world as possible while preparing for it, not having decisions made for them.

Physically a lot of your body is only fully developed by your 20s, not only your brain. You cannot postpone development and decisions simply because you are waiting for the brain to be at a perfect state - there are already teenagers that drive better than most adults, that can compose symphonies, write books, etc. They can do this NOT because they are not fully developed, but because they have been given the opportunity.

Indoctrination and brainwashing also does not come from mental development, but from trust and reliance. There are adults who can be indoctrinated into beliefs and organizations despite their brains being fully developed.

You cannot be blamed for something you did not know, it would be like a person disrespecting another person or culture with his mannerisms or gestures.
 

rambo919

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Who measures a person's ability or worth to make a lifelong decision? I know many adults who have changed careers, marriages, countries and lifestyles. Nothing is set in stone. Teenagers should be encouraged to learn as much about the real world as possible while preparing for it, not having decisions made for them.

Physically a lot of your body is only fully developed by your 20s, not only your brain. You cannot postpone development and decisions simply because you are waiting for the brain to be at a perfect state - there are already teenagers that drive better than most adults, that can compose symphonies, write books, etc. They can do this NOT because they are not fully developed, but because they have been given the opportunity.

Indoctrination and brainwashing also does not come from mental development, but from trust and reliance. There are adults who can be indoctrinated into beliefs and organizations despite their brains being fully developed.

You cannot be blamed for something you did not know, it would be like a person disrespecting another person or culture with his mannerisms or gestures.
You are waffling all over the place.

It's a logical and practical rule of thumb. If you make a decision and can manage to blame someone else for it you are not responsible for yourself and should never have been able to make the decision in the first place.

The responsible party makes the decision, end of story. If he abdicates the decision then the results are his fault.

If you want to allow teenagers to make life altering decisions (thereby forcing the authority away from the guardians) then you cede the right to complain about anyone other than the teenagers themselves. Their choice their problem.

Endlessly finding things to whinge about won't improve anyone's life, it will just enable idiocy.
 

Gyre

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You are waffling all over the place.

It's a logical and practical rule of thumb. If you make a decision and can manage to blame someone else for it you are not responsible for yourself and should never have been able to make the decision in the first place.

The responsible party makes the decision, end of story. If he abdicates the decision then the results are his fault.

If you want to allow teenagers to make life altering decisions (thereby forcing the authority away from the guardians) then you cede the right to complain about anyone other than the teenagers themselves. Their choice their problem.

Endlessly finding things to whinge about won't improve anyone's life, it will just enable idiocy.
Please leave the fluff off of the comment and address the points.

People blame their parents today for things regardless, giving people more agency and freedom helps them be more accountable for their own actions. Family may be in your care but you are not responsible for their actions. What is the difference between a 6 year old, 16 year old and 26 year old destroying private property? Who is accountable for their actions?

Thus is why I was arguing that teenagers are not slaves or property, that magically become freed upon hitting 18. If you love or respect someone, you will support or try to understand their decisions - if the decision requires financial aid or any behavior that impacts you, you have the right to say no, but you cannot dictate the way a person should be or live their own life in their plans for their future.

The teenagers are people and should be responsible for themselves already.
 

Gyre

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I am not playing your games, go find another playmate.

You quoted me which prompted me to respond, you chose to play.

May you consider this post the next time before you engage me.
 

rambo919

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You quoted me which prompted me to respond, you chose to play.

May you consider this post the next time before you engage me.
Thank you for openly telling the world you are a troll that pretends to be serious as part of the game.
 

Gyre

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Thank you for openly telling the world you are a troll that pretends to be serious as part of the game.

It looks more like you ran away from the conversation as soon as we got to serious questions OR you were offended by one sentence, and ran away because you were offended.

We don't have to resume the conversation, but running away doesn't validate or excuse your arguments. I cannot see one place that I "trolled", I addressed every point of yours directly and honestly.
 

rambo919

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It looks more like you ran away from the conversation as soon as we got to serious questions OR you were offended by one sentence, and ran away because you were offended.

We don't have to resume the conversation, but running away doesn't validate or excuse your arguments. I cannot see one place that I "trolled", I addressed every point of yours directly and honestly.
Play stupid games and win stupid prizes, piss off with your pretend honesty to someone stupid enough to buy it.
 

Venator

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We know vaccines are safe and necessary, therefore this matter shouldn't even be up for debate....in much the same way that if parents "choose" not to feed their kids, the children are perfectly entitled to make up their own mind and consume food irrespective of what their moronic ill-informed parents have to say.


The welfare and well-being of children ought to be the priority here. When parents show that they are unfit to effectively care for their children, that's when the State steps in......why should this be any different?
 
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Solarion

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In true teenage fashion they'll do it anyways without telling mom and dad.
 

rh1

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Is it greater than the risk of the vaccine? I am struggling to find any credible evidence showing vaccines being the causation of death. (Any death)
Here you go:
 

rh1

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We know vaccines are safe and necessary, therefore this matter shouldn't even be up for debate....in much the same way that if parents "choose" not to feed their kids, the children are perfectly entitled to make up their own mind and consume food irrespective of what their moronic ill-informed parents have to say.


The welfare and well-being of children ought to be the priority here. When parents show that they are unfit to effectively care for their children, that's when the State steps in......why should this be any different?
Safe: What is your definition of safe?
Necessary: Why is it necessary?

Just because you believe something does not make it true.
 

BasBas

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Here you go:
Safe: What is your definition of safe?
Necessary: Why is it necessary?

Just because you believe something does not make it true.
 
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