Should those eschewing vaccination pay more for life insurance?

Should those eschewing vaccination pay more for life insurance?

  • Yes

    Votes: 170 64.9%
  • No

    Votes: 92 35.1%

  • Total voters
    262

NarrowBandFtw

Honorary Master
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Feb 1, 2008
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21,823
I dunno about life insurance. But if you were offered the vaccine and don't take it, and then get sick enough to need healthcare, should you be refused?

I mean, you obviously don't believe in science, why would you want doctors attending to you? Just do the thoughts and prayers thing.
if you had unprotected sex and contracted HIV should you be denied healthcare too?
 

Swa

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May 4, 2012
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30,109
Only just under 3% of the worlds population has had it as well, over 18 months, thought this thing was a super spreader.
Well we don't know how many people had it but so far your overall average risk of dying from it is under 0.06%. Covid doesn't even feature in the top 40 causes of death. So ja.

I dunno about life insurance. But if you were offered the vaccine and don't take it, and then get sick enough to need healthcare, should you be refused?

I mean, you obviously don't believe in science, why would you want doctors attending to you? Just do the thoughts and prayers thing.
It's not about that but about proper testing. Actually if you want to make it purely about science and our health protocols nobody should be taking it outside of a small RCT.
 

Kosmik

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Joined
Sep 21, 2007
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21,971
Those that are taking the vaccine should pay less for data because we are producing a 5G signal.
Left arm does cellular, right is wifi.

If I wear camo, does that make me look like one of those tree cell masts?
 

SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
40,791
Yup let them pay more for anything that increases their risk.

Life insurance, medical aid, car insurance too while we are at it.
 

richjdavies

Expert Member
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Sep 9, 2013
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Well we don't know how many people had it but so far your overall average risk of dying from it is under 0.06%. Covid doesn't even feature in the top 40 causes of death. So ja.
Where are those numbers from? Would be interesting to see it...

Cant think of much that has killed quite so many people in the past year (except obvs cancer, heart disease)
 

Johnatan56

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Aug 23, 2013
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if you had unprotected sex and contracted HIV should you be denied healthcare too?
If you knew the other person had it and did so, would probably say yes, the issue is how do you prove that?
The other factor is that HIV does not have a vaccine, only abstinence and making sure in regards to wounds etc..
Btw:
All vaccinated monkeys remained free of SHIV for about the first month, but then started to become infected; a few, however, remained uninfected at two months, after all the exposures.


This worked out to be an 85% reduction in the risk of infection overall, a 76% reduction for the monkeys that received the mRNA vaccines alone, without a booster, and an 88% reduction for those that got the mRNA vaccines plus the trimer protein boosters. Protection was correlated with the presence of antibodies to the CD4 binding site, which HIV and SIV use to enter cells.


At a press briefing, Dr Zhang said: "The mRNA platform represents a very promising approach for the development of an HIV vaccine in the future."
As in aside, up until recently, California it was allowed to deny life insurance based on a positive HIV result (law changed this year I think it was, now you must have AIDS for them to be allowed to deny).
In South Africa, you will pay higher premiums for HIV.

Used to be denied/high premiums: https://mg.co.za/article/2013-05-17...-for-life-insurance-ndash-if-they-can-get-it/

With more now offering since 2015 (still increased premiums):

So I don't see an issue with them increasing your premiums if you don't get the vaccine, statistically more likely to die, health insurance is the same since long covid will probably have repercussions as well.
However, there is a substantial body of research suggesting the condition becomes increasingly likely with age, and is twice as common among women.
Some, but not all, long Covid symptoms are more common in people who were very ill or ended up in hospital.
Analysis of several studies and health record databases by King's College London suggested 1-2% of people in their 20s who had the virus would develop long Covid, compared with 5% of people in their 60s.

"But 1-2% of 100,000 cases a day is a lot of people," Dr Claire Steves, one of the study's authors, pointed out.
But of course you'll ignore what I post and say I proved nothing, you'll not bring any sources to back up your claims (or misuse one), same as in all the other threads you post.
 

Swa

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Where are those numbers from? Would be interesting to see it...

Cant think of much that has killed quite so many people in the past year (except obvs cancer, heart disease)
Official death count is now just over 4m out of 7bn population. Here's one, note these are annualised rates. Your lifetime risk is much higher. Covid however will not have the same lifetime risk factor.
 

harties

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
302
2% higher risk of dying if contracting the disease ... seems like a pitiful increase in premiums if anything

think we're being trolled by these vaccine polls on MyBB though :ROFL:

Well we don't know how many people had it but so far your overall average risk of dying from it is under 0.06%. Covid doesn't even feature in the top 40 causes of death. So ja.


It's not about that but about proper testing. Actually if you want to make it purely about science and our health protocols nobody should be taking it outside of a small RCT.

Life insurers saw death claims greater than 400% of their expected claims during peak covid waves so its pretty reasonable to load your premiums if they deem it a risk. They already load your premiums for other risks like e.g. your typical health conditions
 

richjdavies

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Official death count is now just over 4m out of 7bn population. Here's one, note these are annualised rates. Your lifetime risk is much higher. Covid however will not have the same lifetime risk factor.
Im sure you'll shoot down the source...

But...
4m in just over a year would put it at #3?

7bn people a year but most of them are young. So its not like 1% of them die a year...if you go back and look at thr world population in 1960 it was only 3bn. If everyone dropped dead at 70 then would you expect 3.5bn /70 =50m die each year, not 7bn/70 = 100m to die each year.

Screenshot_20210731-183850.png
 

Swa

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Life insurers saw death claims greater than 400% of their expected claims during peak covid waves so its pretty reasonable to load your premiums if they deem it a risk. They already load your premiums for other risks like e.g. your typical health conditions
They also see those claims during natural disasters. Covid is a temporary problem so will they also bring down the premiums when it becomes a seasonal flu?

Im sure you'll shoot down the source...

But...
4m in just over a year would put it at #3?

7bn people a year but most of them are young. So its not like 1% of them die a year...if you go back and look at thr world population in 1960 it was only 3bn. If everyone dropped dead at 70 then would you expect 3.5bn /70 =50m die each year, not 7bn/70 = 100m to die each year.

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No the sources are largely correct depending on how you do your reporting. The issue is that you're comparing endemic diseases over a short period to an epidemic one. Now if you look at lifetime risk the picture becomes quite different. Even if the lifetime risk of dying from Covid is 1% (it's not) there are dozens of preventable and non-preventable causes with a higher incidence.
 

harties

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Messages
302
They also see those claims during natural disasters. Covid is a temporary problem so will they also bring down the premiums when it becomes a seasonal flu?


No the sources are largely correct depending on how you do your reporting. The issue is that you're comparing endemic diseases over a short period to an epidemic one. Now if you look at lifetime risk the picture becomes quite different. Even if the lifetime risk of dying from Covid is 1% (it's not) there are dozens of preventable and non-preventable causes with a higher incidence.
Please enlighten us which natural disaster that would have a similar impact to their life insured book? If it becomes a seasonal flu and data supports that it doesn't lead to an increased risk , they will bring down the premiums. Similar to the advancement of HIV treatments leading to lower risk thus they no longer load as much as they used to if you are HIV+.

You have to realise they have a massive portfolio of lives and claims to analyze, not some random anecdotal evidence from the internet.
 

ThinkCentre

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Fact: You can still get COVID even if you are vaccinated.
Fact: You are much less likely to die if you are vaccinated.
(I read somewhere that 99% of people who died in the USA due to Covid- 19, was not vaccinated.)
 

Swa

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May 4, 2012
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30,109
Please enlighten us which natural disaster that would have a similar impact to their life insured book? If it becomes a seasonal flu and data supports that it doesn't lead to an increased risk , they will bring down the premiums. Similar to the advancement of HIV treatments leading to lower risk thus they no longer load as much as they used to if you are HIV+.
You are looking globally, not locally. Also insurance premiums are set before commencement. They say they may decrease them if you decide to get vaccinated but don't mention anything about if it becomes a seasonal flu.

You have to realise they have a massive portfolio of lives and claims to analyze, not some random anecdotal evidence from the internet.
And therein lies the rub "lies, damned lies, and statistics". Insurance companies will come up with a statistic if it suits them, right down to how likely it is to stump your toe.

Fact: You can still get COVID even if you are vaccinated.
Fact: You are much less likely to die if you are vaccinated.
(I read somewhere that 99% of people who died in the USA due to Covid- 19, was not vaccinated.)
 

NarrowBandFtw

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If you knew the other person had it and did so, would probably say yes, the issue is how do you prove that?
the bit that you are missing is due to the prevalence of HIV in ZA there is literally legislation making it illegal to adjust healthcare premiums based on HIV status and a whole host of other pre-existing conditions

Odds are covid would just fall under that very same legislative umbrella.

Generally I'm very much opposed to that kind of legislation, but the law is the law.

On the topic of proof however: how would you ever prove that I chose not to take the vaccine? Maybe I really wanted to, but just could not register, or the schedule never worked ...
 

Rosaudio

First Officer
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
22,079
You are looking globally, not locally. Also insurance premiums are set before commencement. They say they may decrease them if you decide to get vaccinated but don't mention anything about if it becomes a seasonal flu.


And therein lies the rub "lies, damned lies, and statistics". Insurance companies will come up with a statistic if it suits them, right down to how likely it is to stump your toe.
 

Swa

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Joined
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30,109
That is not the argument. But even if the correlation is correct you are referring to relatives. If you're young and healthy your risk of dying of Covid is still under 0.1% assuming you contract it. Just the top 5 causes of death have killed like 15x more people than Covid did in a year.
 

Vorastra

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
7,483
I dunno about life insurance. But if you were offered the vaccine and don't take it, and then get sick enough to need healthcare, should you be refused?

I mean, you obviously don't believe in science, why would you want doctors attending to you? Just do the thoughts and prayers thing.
On a side note, what's your stance on whether people should be taxed for a "universal healthcare" system.
 
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