Shuttleworth funds anti-Telkom campaign

[LCBXX]

@icbxx

Even if he is bored, what is wrong with helping in changing the Telkoms environment for all of us? I think that from the time he made his fortune he has shown a willingness to share with other people, unlike others which eventually go in denial about social responsibilities.

Well done Mark and keep and please carry on being bored

Nor Mark nor anybody can change telecoms in this country except for the telecoms providers themselves. You and I and Mark and his Pals can cut our Telkom and cell phone lines all we want..all the telecoms guys do is blow us off as farts in the storm citing the phrase: "Fine, let's see you come right elsewhere".

 

[AdLo]

Mozart has been obsessed with Telkom being tackled by its shareholders and not the public, business or consumers.

IMO around Mozart one needs to be wary because he has his own agendas which is totally different than ours.

 

[alacos]

Hmmm. This story ( http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Telecoms/1244.html ) was, I believe, written by RPM shortly after the end of the iWeek-conference session at which I spoke (which was yesterday). I have no doubt at all that it is a perfectly bona-fide piece of journalism --- but it neverthess conveys a number of (no-doubt unintended) inaccuracies, and I think that I ought to correct these before unwarranted speculation generated by the story becomes a source of embarrassment. I will post a futher (and longer) message in this thread within the next half an hour or so for that purpose --- so please, everyone, give me that long before adding to what is already here.

Michael Alachouzos

 

[Leitmotif]

Hey, I'm happy someone with some real presence is behind TAG. Sad as it is, a well-known name will always help. As for not having an impact... remember Ubuntu?

 

[emmanuel]

Those shareholders in Telkom, who are part of the so called gravy train, is likely not to allow this problem to be addressed in a reasonable and civil manor and with integrity.

The only solution would be if this is addressed in a way that these shareholders can't block.

This is likely through opening the market. Such a move is likely also being blocked or slowed to a snail's pace by similar stakeholders.

There is just no honor in this mess we find ourselves in.

 

[KampfGherkin]

Government is ultimately the problem. Tackling Telkom is more like treating the symptoms rather than the disease.

 

[alacos]

OK --- With reference to my above post #23 (formerly #24) in this thread, here are the points which I'd like to make by way of correction:

1. The funding mentioned in rpm's story ( http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Telecoms/1244.html ) actually comes, I understand, from the Mark Shuttleworth Foundation (rather than from Mr Shuttleworth directly). And the intention was (and is) to assist in the creation of a genuine --- not just temporary and purpose-limited (as implied by ic's now-deleted original post #9 in this thread) --- base of small-shareholder activists within the South African telecommunications industry. It is true (subject to what is said at "3" below) that shares in Telkom are for this reason being transferred to individuals expressing an interest in becoming PART of such a base; and I PERSONALLY --- though I cannot speak for Mr Shuttleworth in this regard (and have never purported to be in a position to do so) --- believe it to be also true that Telkom ought to be "kicked where it hurts"! I have no idea whether or not Mr Shuttleworth's attitude is a basically "anti-Telkom" one, and for all I know he may not at all appreciate being publicly proclaimed as the personal funder of an avowedly anti-Telkom "campaign".

2. It is NOT the case that Telkom shares are being handed out with the specific aim of eventually convening a Telkom general meeting. At the iWeek-conference, I merely mentioned the requisitioning of general meetings (and, in certain circumstances, the convening of such meetings by requisitionists) as one of a number of EXAMPLES of the quite-extensive powers and rights conferred by relevant legislation upon registered shareholders (or, in company-law parlance, "members") of a company.

3. The powers and rights which I've just referred to are powers and rights of a company's REGISTERED shareholders (or "MEMBERS"). In order to have them (i.e. in order to be a "member"), you have to have your name included in the relevant company's "register of members" (within the meaning of the Companies Act 61 of 1973) --- and, for reasons which have already been the subject of some discussion both in the press and in earlier MyADSL/MyBroadband threads, I am of the view that it is extremely doubtful whether any valid such register EXISTS in Telkom's case. In fact I believe that it probably DOESN'T --- and I did actually make some reference to this problem when speaking at the iWeek conference --- but that is merely my personal view (and the view of certain clients of mine NOT including TAG or any of the persons connected with it), and the TAG-related share-transfers scheme (see "1" above) is proceeding on the assumption/hypothesis that it is an INCORRECT view.


Well, that's it. Subject to the above points, rpm's story is (I think) quite accurate. For the avoidance of doubt, though, I would add that Alastair Otter wasn't AT the relevant iWeek-conference session and is therefore in no position to explain to anyone what I said at it. He apparently tried to contact me (via his TAG colleague Richard Frank) yesterday evening, in order to ask how he should respond to questions which were being put to him by RPM and/or other journalists, but unfortunately I was suffering from a migraine at the time and was unable to respond to his query.


Michael Alachouzos


PS: Anyone with any queries etc relating to any of the above is welcome to address them to me directly at smda@mkohlhaas.org

 

[eltherza]

Sounds all a bit suspect.

Why does TAG have "a lot of shares" in telkom? That alone shows something isn't right when someone "fighting" telkom owns a bit of telkom...

Isnt Shuttleworth in the corner of infraco, what is he doing help fund buying of telkom shares?

Something just doesn't feel right with all this...

 

[Fudzy]

Fudzy we can always just moan and bitch in this forum, and do nothing else...

Its a helluva lot more cheaper

 

[zamrg]

The +- 100 shares which TAG own aren't a lot of shares in Telkom, but rather a really small percentage of their issued share capital. The advantage of owning these shares is that one becomes a shareholder of Telkom and is privilleged to certain rights an benefits, some of which are to vote in annual general meetings on fundamental company changes, earn dividends on shares which can further be used to fund TAG, the ability to inspect corporate books and records, and further benefits. The next Telkom AGM is on 19th October 2007 so if you'd like to have your say, all you need is 1 share.

 

[chiskop]

What has been the success of previous TAG campaigns? What did that expensive news paper ad achieve?

Like ic suggested, a lot of coverage. There were two or three TV discussions and a lot of press coverage in the week following the appearance of the ad - sure not a tremendous amount, but that wouldn't have happened without the advert.

Sounds all a bit suspect.
Why does TAG have "a lot of shares" in telkom? That alone shows something isn't right when someone "fighting" telkom owns a bit of telkom...

Have you read anything in this thread? Share ownership gives you certain rights which you would not otherwise possess - I'm not going to try explain and get it all wrong - but basically as a shareholder you have more options with which to call the company to account than you would as an ordinary account-payer.

One share per person is not going to make anyone rich. You can take off your hat now .

OK so how do we become one of these "individuals" ?

You respond to this post.

 

[ic]

About all the scepticism expressed in some posts in this thread, no one is forcing you to participate, for example no one forced me to get involved - I did it willingly and bcos I believe this campaign can have an impact, if you don't like it or think something smells off, then simply don't get involved, it really is that simple.

@alacos, withdrew [deleted] my inaccurate post after reading your post, better to have your post which explains things properly .

 

[Wisemansa]

sweeet

 

[alacos]

Sounds all a bit suspect.

Why does TAG have "a lot of shares" in telkom? That alone shows something isn't right when someone "fighting" telkom owns a bit of telkom...

I think that that's a misconceived comment. In the US and in Europe (+ in Japan and elsewhere), minority-shareholder activism is now a well-estalished avenue of exerting pressure of various sorts upon the management of public corporations. It's only the fact that it's a "new thing" in South Africa that is causing all the fuss here.


And, by the way, it's a "new thing" which I've been advocating for rather a long time now. The following extracts from an earlier MyADSL thread date back to August 2005:

... I do wish that [MyADSL members] would wake up to the fact that having a shareholding in a company is, at least potentially, a means of having an opportunity to influence the company's behaviour.

We ... could buy some shares. That way our chosen rep (or reps) with shareholders voting rights, get to go to all shareholders meetings inclusing the AGM where we could ask potentially HUGELY damning questions.

I've been trying to convey that sort of idea to Gregg, w1z4rd et al. ... for ages!

Michael Alachouzos

 

[Nutcracker]

Its always strange how the "new stuff" that have been around for long, are still the "new stuff" when people actually read about it.

@alacos - i respect your ideas and if only i was a little more knowledgeable about things of this kind, i would also participate.

@everyone who is knowledgeable - if you do in fact have some knowledge, help a cause that could in fact make a difference. All of us always bitch and moan when telkom does something that effects us, but for once people are doing something about it.

so best of luck TAG

 

[kilo39]

Didn't I read somewhere here that owning one share or 10 or 100 is useless against the massive voting blocks 'of the major shareholders.'

Raising a stink or a placard will simply get you booted out a meeting?

More 'activism' from 'entrenched' media would be the thing, ie, more articles in mainstream press etc. Shuttleworth is a name that would do some good in this regard?

Surely Mark is part of Mbeki's 'task force' (name?) What a 'joke' that has been.

Dread to say but we are f#ked (especially with the mindset and setup of Infraco.)

Wish I had a solution (I don't.) But, and nevertheless this is a small step and very welcome.

Mark should throw his toys out the cot, that could get some attention (oh but then he doesn't [even] live in the country?!)

We can hope a ripple turns into a tsunami: that's how it is (so they say.)

 

[kilo39]

Mark should just buy Telkom (now that would be a real solution.)

 

[chiskop]

Didn't I read somewhere here that owning one share or 10 or 100 is useless against the massive voting blocks 'of the major shareholders.'

Raising a stink or a placard will simply get you booted out a meeting?

Without owning shares you can't even get into the meeting to begin to ask questions. I don't think that shouting and waving placards at shareholders' meetings is quite the right tactic, but to get in there and ask the difficult or uncomfortable questions, and get some kind of response (even if that is getting thrown out ).

I don't think that it'll bring the giant to its knees, but asking questions, getting the issues out and into the newspapers is a good start.

Depends how you define useless, I guess.

 

[kilo39]

Depends how you define useless, I guess.

Apologies. My 'figure of speech.'

Useless is never useless (every bit can help.)

 

[ernstn]

Sounds all a bit suspect.

Why does TAG have "a lot of shares" in telkom? That alone shows something isn't right when someone "fighting" telkom owns a bit of telkom...

Isnt Shuttleworth in the corner of infraco, what is he doing help fund buying of telkom shares?

Something just doesn't feel right with all this...

We are trying to do something, both here and via TAG. I contributed to the Tag campaign and I believe that it was money well spent,but there are a lot more work to be done!

MyAdsl, Hellkom and the Tag campaign raised consumer awareness and activiasm. I believe that this in itself is responsible for the drop in Telkom's prices( they would never have done so voluntarily). It led to the useless Icasa regulations, which has had a reasonable influence already in the sector.

Of course, we have a long way to go in achieving Telecommunications Nirvana, but each step in the right direction counts. And if we all sit back and adopt a negative attitude to the whole thing, nothing further will happen. But if we use every means at our disposal to spread the message to as many people as possible, things will change. For example, the press lately have been publishing very negative Telkom reports.

This is 10-1 the first time that some consumers have mobilised in South Africa and are actively doing things to improve matters. It certainly beats burying your face in the sand, thinking that nothing can be done to rectify matters.

If everybody in history adopted a "we can do nothing" approach, I think we would even live in a world that everybody believes to be flat.