Small town, where to get Leased line or FTTP costing in za?

fundutzi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
268
Dear All,

The short version.
Objective. Consistent reliable +- 2Mbs TX/up connection. RX/Down +- 10Mbs.
Please could you recommend where to get a quick accurate indication of rough estimate for installing some line better than DSL to a premise +- 1.5 km to Telkom exchange in small town?

The longer version. Very brief.
a. +- 8 years ago. DSL installed for small company just outside town. Life was good.
b. Telkom cable theft, Telkom will never replace, no phone line no DSL.
c.1. My advice at time, {Install DSL in town, use Wifi link over +- 4 km}
c.2. They had Wifi installed from some provider. Horrid. Cost soul credits in life years due to conflict and stress.
c.3. Some months later, had satellite installed. Horrid. It is what it is. Latency too high as predicted. I had satellite myself in late Nineties. Physics did not change since then.
c.4. Now some year perhaps 2 later, agree to follow c.1.
d. 2013+ Life had been brilliant once backup power provided [DSL +- 10 Down/1 Up Mbs] over Wifi link.
e.1. 2016. Battle with ISP and Telkom claiming VDSL 20Mbs available.
=> A lot of work, line stats indicate +- 2 km from exchange.
e.2. On visit I walk door to door getting phone numbers form companies < 500m from Telkom exchange, do provision tests and speak to local Telkom man from exchange after great difficulty. Exchange does support VDSL. We need phone line very near Telkom exchange.
f. Tired of e. We try follow Telkom`s promise and install new second line for VDSL 20Mbs. After short time, line default back to 10Mbs normal DSL speed. Some posts here described the clever automate bot Telkom use that decide a line speed.
g. Back to where we started, we need a +- 10Mbs down, critical to get +- 2Mbs up link, must be reliable over time.

Options in my view.
a. Accept this is not possible.
Hmm, we visit moon in 1969. This is 2017.

b. Rent/ buy a building < 300m from Exchange. Install Telkom line and use VDSL.
Hmm.

c. Agree contract with 3rd party, install phone line to their property, put Wifi up.
Hassle, cumbersome. Busy looking into this.

d. Get some other link. Leased line?
These seem to cost +- thousands of rand / month. We pay currently +- 1000 / month. Probably willing to pay <= R 2000 / month.

Your comments recommendations will be greatly appreciated.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
10,747
Stupid question but never the less. What modem/router did you install when you did the VDSL upgrade?

Can you post any line stats that are available on the modem?
How was the Wi-Fi setup for you? Has anyone tried to optimise the Wi-Fi connection by checking which channel should be used to avoid using the defaults? I hope that you have pretty tight security on the Wi-Fi link installed.

Have you got a smart phone? If so download a simple App such as Wi-Fi analyser to see what channel your setup is using and to try and find a quiet channel?
 

fundutzi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
268
Dear Geoff,

I am much obliged for your willingness to assist.

My question is as stated, where to get costings for a leased line, this may be copper or fibre, in za in a small town.
We are well past optimizing the line and "possibly" trying to get the VDSL.

A reference.
- The premise is +- 900 Meters from exchange, phone lines {old and new} are +- 2 km from exchange.
- There are no line issues, ADSL works just fine as expected. {For DSL Cisco 877 is used.}
- All tests had been done where the Telkom lines terminated. No extentions, no wifi etc.
- The VDSL worked briefly on the new 2nd line, then the line was reduced to the 10MB profile. This probably due to +- 2km from exchange.
- Absolute no issues with the Wifi link I installed for past 4 years. All work as it should.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
10,747
There are no reasons I can think of why a truly VDSL connection in an area capable of 40 Mbps VDSL should reduce your service to 10 Mbps other than an issue with the telephone line or with the VDSL router. Not even ASSIA should have that effect unless the line is bad enough. VDSL is supposed to extend the range over which ADSL services can work, and +/- 2 km is definitely not the issue.

As to alternatives. Are there any other service providers in LT? You have tried a satellite link and apparently cannot live with the latency issue. What about a mobile connection via one of the mobile operators?

You could go to Telkom and try and get a leased line service (Diginet/Megaline point-to-point connection) installed normally for businesses instead of relying on an ADSL service. Telkom will then determine if this should be over a wireline connection or a point to point microwave connection or fibre for that matter IF they have it available in LT.

For that the way to go is find out on Telkom's website who to deal with for business services in your area. A 2Mbps Diginet or Megaline connection will provide you with a full duplex both way connection to the exchange and then on that you should be able to get whatever connectivity you need.

BTW, a DSL Cisco 877 is a pretty old router and as far as I know is NOT VDSL capable! I have not worked with them lately, but if is an old one it is probably only ADSL capable not even ADSL2+ capable.
I see though that there are options for this router to handle ADSL2+ and extended reach ADSL as well but not VDSL.
Provide us with more detail on it and someone will be able to confirm what it is capable of.
 
Last edited:

fundutzi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
268
I was hoping for persons perhaps indicating what they pay for elsewhere or links like these below without having to ring Telkom:
a. http://www.hso.co.uk/leased-lines/leased-line-providers/uk-leased-line-providers
b. https://business.bt.com/products/broadband/bt-leased-lines/#

This post is for other options than DSL.

The brief history provided is a reference only.
I really do not want to go into the why the line speed is what it is. Tests were done with two other routers brand new to proof it will or will not work. There is little point in buying a new Cisco for R12k to still have the same outcome.

Thank you,
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
10,747
I was hoping for persons perhaps indicating what they pay for elsewhere or links like these below without having to ring Telkom:
a. http://www.hso.co.uk/leased-lines/leased-line-providers/uk-leased-line-providers
b. https://business.bt.com/products/broadband/bt-leased-lines/#

This post is for other options than DSL.

The brief history provided is a reference only.
I really do not want to go into the why the line speed is what it is. Tests were done with two other routers brand new to proof it will or will not work. There is little point in buying a new Cisco for R12k to still have the same outcome.

Thank you,
Okay, if you do not want to pursue why your existing connection is apparently not working for you then your problem. The point is a badly implemented service on whatever you can get will give you the same performance issues, UNLESS you are prepared to face up to the fact that your connection is poorly designed and implemented. And randomly choosing two other routers without understanding what they can do for you will have exactly the same outcome. You cannot just swop a router and expect the network to miraculously re-configure itself either!

Methinks you have reached a point where no one wants to assist you anyway. Whatever you do that involves the Telkom exchange is going to require Telkom/OpenServe support.

Looking at the Internet and referencing sites in the UK is a pretty useless exercise. If there are no other competing service providers available in LT then you have to either do without, or fix your existing connection or deal with Telkom to get an alternative business service from Telkom.
 
Last edited:

fundutzi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
268
We are out side the scope of this post now.
With respect, this post clearly stated where to get pricing for services other than xDSL. Not troubleshoot a xDSL connection.

Hope someone else can assist.

A reference.
I live in the UK hence the links.
I support sites mostly in UK, US, EU and some in Asia.
The sites I support in South Africa is done pro bono.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
10,747
You can do a search on the Internet yourself for alternative suppliers of connectivity in LT.
You claim you been to LT. That should indicate to you that this is not a place where good connectivity options are just waiting for you to select.


Telkom/OpenServe is your first and probably you only port of call in LT. So bury the attitude and maybe me or someone else will be prepared to assist further. Anyone that battles for 8 years or more to get decent connectivity deserves all the hassles he gets.

and BTW Cisco is NOT the only supplier of very good reliable routers in South Africa, so spending R 12000 on the correct router to terminate the VDSL service is definitely NOT required!
 
Last edited:

savage

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
2,922
The prices for other than xDSL (or FTTH) aren't publicly available because it's distanced based. There's not a single price that will fit everyone, quotes are done on an as requested basis (distance and feasibility being the two biggest obstacles to overcome in order to get the service).

You will need to make contact with ISPs and provide them your address, after which they can work out quotes for you if they can provide service. Diginet (Leased Lines) is dead, Telkom's not selling new services anymore and you're forced to make use of MetroEthernet (fiber), which is roughly R1.5K per Mbps. It is guaranteed bandwidth however.

You'll be far better off with a WISP or something, if there is any available, given the asymmetric and small bandwidth requirement.
 

fundutzi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
268
Brilliant, thank you, Savage. You confirm indications.
It seemed quite difficult to get prices with moderate effort unless in big cities in za.

Still waiting on feedback as an estimate for costs from different company in town that had dedicated fibre link installed.

WISP route I try and avoid at all cost. Good latency over time is a high priority.
 

savage

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
2,922
Still waiting on feedback as an estimate for costs from different company in town that had dedicated fibre link installed.
That will be your best bet (unless you're talking about Telkom, which I doubt). If there is LOS, you can try push for a Microwave link. Not remotely the same as 802.11 most WISPs use, but still wireless. Quick to deploy, cheaper than fiber (or should be, especially if there's trenching involved), and very very low latencies. Not easily affected by bad weather either.

If you weren't on the other side of the country I would have tried to assist, but you're a tad bit too far away for my liking.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
10,747
Metro Ethernet on Fibre ( MetroLAN is the product name) is not ubiquitously available everywhere.

The best bet is to still to post a query on Telkom's business site for SMME's with the details required and get a response as to what is available. While leased lines are dead in areas that have alternative technologies available such as Metro Ethernet, the service is still available in some areas.
 

fundutzi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
268
Much appreciated. Thank you.
I fear anything but a cable. Does many people/ SME use Microwave links that you know of?

I found it very hard till now to get a +-real cost estimate for anything but xDSL and Fibre (extreme limited number of locations in za). Even with these services it seems hard to have accurate information beforehand.
 

paul5186

Expert Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
1,241
Telkom metro ethernet will probably be your only bet. Even if there is a WISP in the area, they most likely use metro ethernet as backhaul as I doubt DFA fibre is there. Contact wapa.org.za and see if there is a local ISP who can help.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
10,747
PTP microwave links are installed pretty much anywhere on demand provided one knows who is going to be the network provider. That is the first step - you need to find out who will be the ISP.

Makhado (Louis Trichardt) for while had Telkom/Openserve, Neotel and Liquid Telecom as possible network providers. I do not know which ISPs are in the town now using anything else other than XDSL. The only privately owned fibre connection that I am aware of is for the University network and it was installed into Telkom as the backbone provider.

Liquid canned their proposed services a few years ago when they ran into licensing issues. Now that they are busy acquiring Neotel, they may be ready to go back in business locally as they have a major fibre repeater point close to LT. Otherwise it is back to Telkom as a backbone network provider.

Then there are the Mobile operators who may be able to help. Vodacom and MTN have business divisions.

Either way, you will have to provide full details of what you want including the addresses before anyone can start to work on a longer term solution
 
Last edited:

fundutzi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
268
Thank you.
Your feedback confirms this is route that requires effort.

Someone else may read this post at some future point asking the same question: If not xDSL what services are available in what time frame at roughly what cost.

To summarize, please correct me if I misunderstood:
a. No central site in South Africa where one can look at map/ database to learn what other providers are available in some area, in this case LTT.
b. Your guidance is phone {cannot really look at map or website} the following: {Options in order of suggestions in your replies}
i. Telkom, MetroEthernet, “guestimate” +- R1.5k / MB. {ty savage, paul5186, Geoff.D}
ii. wapa.org.za {ty paul5186}
iii. DFA {if I understand correct this is dfafrica.co.za, I do not see coverage in LTT} {ty paul5186}
iv. Neotel*, Liquid Telecom*, Vodacom, MTN {ty Geoff.D}
c. The short versions of the above.
If you do not want/ cannot use xDSL, in this small town you have to phone Telkom, MetroEthernet to learn more.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
10,747
Unfortunately, you have to check each of the possible players' coverage maps one by one.

DFA does not have coverage in LT.
The two likely cellular operators MTN and Vodacom also do not have coverage for business services in the area, but may be prepared to provide you with a quote if approached. Vodacom seems to have some broadband wireless coverage.
Neither does Neotel/Liquid Telecom.
You are stuck with Telkom as a network provider.
 
Top