So, you get to Heaven...and you and the rest still are what you are.

saturnz

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I've never known "nothing" and I don't think any human being can ever say to know "nothing". We've all ever only known "something".
so according to what we have observed, something exists, nothing does not- it is at best an idea

are we in agreement so far?
 

Prawnapple

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so according to what we have observed, something exists, nothing does not- it is at best an idea

are we in agreement so far?
I'm not in agreement that "nothing" exists. I have no idea if "nothing" does or can exist as I have no idea what "nothing" is.
 

saturnz

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Okay I'm still sceptical, it sounds like you're going into word soup... but for all intents and purposes, let's say I agree.
its not a word soup, its trying to keep things as simple as possible

this is my starting point

there is an objective reality shared by all rational observers."The basis for rationality is acceptance of an external objective reality." "Objective reality is clearly an essential thing if we are to develop a meaningful perspective of the world....Without this assumption, there would be only the thoughts and images in our own mind (which would be the only existing mind) and there would be no need of science, or anything else
so its not a matter of just agreeing for arguments sake, you have to understand this very simple statement (something is and nothing is not) I have posed to you
 

Ponderer

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Whether it came from a stoep-kakker or an alien is irrelevant. The point stands and holds water.
Then tell me what it is that I am too dense to understand.
Be specific.
Unless of course you are to dense to do so - that you are just mindlessly yapping away from the sidelines.
 

Arksun

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Then tell me what it is that I am too dense to understand.
Be specific.
Unless of course you are to dense to do so - that you are just mindlessly yapping away from the sidelines.
Bloody hell, you forget already what was talked about?

Bottom line is that god loves satan in his employ even though he denies it.
or
God needs satan more than satan needs him.
You said his logic was deranged. I asked you why. You said triumphantly "because it doesnt make sense".

You're free to elaborate on that now.
 

Prawnapple

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its not a word soup, its trying to keep things as simple as possible

this is my starting point



so its not a matter of just agreeing for arguments sake, you have to understand this very simple statement (something is and nothing is not) I have posed to you
Just 1 second. Before we continue, I told you my ideology, what is yours?

Then, I agree with your statement.
 
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chrisc

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Will my dog(s) join me in "heaven"? No
Will my late uncle join me too?

No

There is no heaven. Its all in the mind and promoted superstition so the church can gouge as much money from you as it can

Fellow in the next street is an interdenominational minister. When asked about the refugees in Cape Town recently who were requesting assistance, he said they should be loaded on buses and dumped where they can do no harm. He drives a nice Mercedes Benz I notice

100% hypocrite
 

saturnz

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Just 1 second. Before we continue, I told you my ideology, what is yours?

Then, I agree with your statement.
I don't think atheism is an ideology

this is how I understand an ideology

a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy
your answer did very little to answer that, in any event, the answer is not really important to the point in the conversation we are at now since we very close to being in agreement on a really important point, if you want to now hold your answer conditional upon an answer I give, then you can appreciate I will give you as much a vague answer as you did
 

TysonRoux

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Will my dog(s) join me in "heaven"? No
Will my late uncle join me too?

No

There is no heaven. Its all in the mind and promoted superstition so the church can gouge as much money from you as it can

Fellow in the next street is an interdenominational minister. When asked about the refugees in Cape Town recently who were requesting assistance, he said they should be loaded on buses and dumped where they can do no harm. He drives a nice Mercedes Benz I notice

100% hypocrite
Is a raunchy time awaiting you in one of seven heavens? - NO, but its a potent lure for some.
 
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Prawnapple

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I don't think atheism is an ideology

this is how I understand an ideology



your answer did very little to answer that, in any event, the answer is not really important to the point in the conversation we are at now since we very close to being in agreement on a really important point, if you want to now hold your answer conditional upon an answer I give, then you can appreciate I will give you as much a vague answer as you did
I immediately can't trust you now. You just had the perfect opportunity to present your argument and instead you backtracked / took a step back.

>Vague
You've certainly done a great job of that.

Why did you ask for my ideology btw? I imagined it was because you had to gauge whether I had any chance of possibly believing you in the first place? :D
 

saturnz

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I immediately can't trust you now. You just had the perfect opportunity to present your argument and instead you backtracked / took a step back.

>Vague
You've certainly done a great job of that.

Why did you ask for my ideology btw? I imagined it was because you had to gauge whether I had any chance of possibly believing you in the first place? :D
if you can't accept a basic axiom of naturalism, thats your problem, not mine- it has nothing to do with belief, I never mentioned belief, that is entirely your own words
 

Prawnapple

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if you can't accept a basic axiom of naturalism, thats your problem, not mine- it has nothing to do with belief, I never mentioned belief, that is entirely your own words
Bugger naturalism. Give me pure science.
 
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