something to note on 'debunking' a religion

Necuno

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now i am not a christian but here is an interesting thing to note when
you start researching a religion and want to 'debunk' it.

read through it, it actually made me think on the few times i forcefully went
on debunking and preaching my 'truth'.

taken from
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_world_religions/jesus_and_christianity_revealed_as_myth-t25380.0.html
...

OutofBodyDude:
The Christian faith is based on the belief that the Bible is indeed the word of god. If the Bible cannot be shown to be inspired, then the Christian faith could be said to be false and no more than a farce. If the Bible cannot be shown to be inspired, then Christianity can be said to be the same as any other religion that has been devised and practiced by man.

The Bible story of Jesus is a contradictory and confusing account. The Bible shows that this Jesus fellow spoke and taught many absurd and foolish things, and often believed he was having a conversation with devils. If one will read the entire Bible, one will find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, idiotic laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a wise, just, and loving god. Christians have found biblical scriptures telling them to burn people at the stake, to justify slavery, to oppress and persecute others, and to kill and commit war in the name of their god. Unfortunately, there are some even today who would have us return to the teachings and laws found in the Bible.
and then the obvious bible-is-not-true examples.
The resemblances between Jesus and Ra, and all of the other saviors of mankind, are just too many. Let's compare these famous "sons of god." Well compare Jesus, Horus of egypt, Chrishna of Entia, and Buddha of the Orient. Just keep in mind that Horus, Chrishna, and Buddha were created far before the story of Jesus was.

***Horus was baptised by water by anup:::Jesus baptised by water by John
***Annab the baptiser:::John the baptist
***Horus born in Annu, the place of bread:::Jesus born in Bethlehem, the house of bread
***Horus the good shepherd with the crook upon his shoulders:::Jesus the good shepherd the with lamb or kid upon his shoulders
***The seven on board the bark with Horus:::The seven fishers on board the bark with Jesus
***Horus as the lamb::: Jesus as the lamb

and now the first reply from Mustardseed
Re: JESUS AND CHRISTIANITY REVEALED AS MYTH
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2007, 17:44:58 »

(The Bible story of Jesus is a contradictory and confusing account. The Bible shows that this Jesus fellow spoke and taught many absurd and foolish things, and often believed he was having a conversation with devils. If one will read the entire Bible, one will find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, idiotic laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a wise, just, and loving god. Christians have found biblical scriptures telling them to burn people at the stake, to justify slavery, to oppress and persecute others, and to kill and commit war in the name of their god. Unfortunately, there are some even today who would have us return to the teachings and laws found in the Bible.)

I read the entire post and though I agree with parts of it, it is too long to answer, it is simply too much work to research. I can however assure you that it is a very biased interpretation and not entirely correct. Basically it is a barrage of information that would take several weeks to verify or debunk. Posts like this serve their purpose, they affect people, but they are not fair and certainly do not serve the greater good i.e. that of finding the truth.

The manner and style is intimidating and insulting to say the least, and I do not foresee many Christians, be they PhD or otherwise wanting to answer it. Maybe that is what was intended!!. It is very obvious that the author is convinced that Christians (all) are a pitiful group of individuals, mindless idiots who hide in horror from the TRUTH (as he sees it), but this is so very wrong. We do not. However, we keep the faith, for as the Bible says “the preaching of the cross is to (unbelievers) foolishness but to us that are saved it is the power of God”.

Those of us who believe in Christ do not need acceptance by folks like the author here, we are quite content to live our lives by the recipe of what we see written. It is true that a lot of wars have been fought in the name of Christ but so what. Those who fight wars need excuses and just because they pick Christianity as their “excuse” they do not become the spokesmen for Christianity. Unjust wars are just that… unjust wars.

Beware that you do not tear down something you do not understand and hurt people who have done you no harm my friend. The Bible (New Testament) and the account of Jesus is a testament to LOVE, and much good has been done following its teaching as well. If you are going to present a factual picture you should not forget that. If you are bent on venting your own frustrations however go ahead, you seem to be doing it with a vengeance and your irony sarcasm and name calling speaks for itself. What you fling out into the universe will return to you, if it is love you will reap love, if it is degradation and hate you will reap the same.

If you do not believe, it is your choice, and I support you in that decision, but if I choose to believe give me the freedom to do so, without attacking me and maligning me, with said slurs and biased observation.

Regards Mustardseed
 
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Necuno

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outofbodydude:
Quote from: outofbodydude on January 12, 2007, 22:48:00
My intention is certainly not to hurt anyone. My only intention is to expose the truth to those who are blind to it. I have no problem with Christians. I have no problem with anyone of any religion. I agree that religions promote love and good morals. However, they have bad aspects to them along with the good aspects. For example, relgion has caused more deaths to humans than any other force on earth. Religions instill fear in innocent people, causing them to be afraid of doing or saying somthing that goes against their religion for fear of eternal punishment. They present people with an idea that what they say is the truth and nothing but the truth, and it is a sin to explore futher. Therefore, people are not able to raise their awareness, their consciousness is not able to expand and they are stuck in a state of false love and fear.
Mustardseed:
Well that might be your motive and I do applaud you for it however remember that the truth is subjective. You yourself consider, what you "know" to be "the truth" but it is infact only your opinion and research. Many of the claims you make are based on your own experiences and nothing ultimate. I am sure that you yourself would strongly resent being approached on the street and barraged with the "truth" as the fundamentalists see it. Their claims would be offensive to you. Am I right?. Muslims as well as just about every religious person on the planet, have their opinion of what the "truth" is. In my opinion such barrages is inconsistent with the goal of the AP, or even free speech, freedom of religion or what have you. It is a covert attempt to proselyte, something that would not be accepted if it was written by a Christian. The entire AP is infact to many, not only Christians, but countless others, a lie and inconsistent with their experiences and research. If you do insist on such a style I would suggest you post it on one of the many Christian apologist sites and start discussing it with folks who make it their "fight" to discuss and argue such matters. Posting it here in a forum of like minded, (that is folks who would tend to agree with you), only further cements you in your opinion and therefore will not aid you in actually examining your claims.

Christianity is not revealed as a myth by your post. Your claims are merely a footnote, a thought, and a .......claim. It is a theory and not conclusive. Now keep in mind that I do not fault you for having this belief, we all subscribe to beliefsystems, and part of believing in something includes disbelieving something too. What I do bring to your attention is your style. Namecalling slights and the like never convinced anyone, for as you will see later in your life, you can bring a horse to water but not force him to drink, and a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

All the best to you in your life
 
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Mr TB

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"Christianity is not revealed as a myth by your post. Your claims are merely a footnote, a thought, and a .......claim. It is a theory and not conclusive"

If i understand the post in totality it is also dividing the unviverse into gods and we should find the true god...
Now the bible is about the TRUE G-D , and him dealing with the other gods, the pagan gods ,the IDOLS.
Some of the attributes of the TRUE G-D obviously will be claimed by IDOLS.
PRIDE is one of the reasons IDOLS will certainly want to have the attributes as the TRUE G-D...

If you understand a bit of pagan gods you will understand the ten plagues...
You will understand dagon lying on his back in front of Gideon's father's house...

Science is also a god its name is NEBO and it father's name is BEL.
BEL indeed is the god of the storm. Now BEL cost NEBO a billion dollars the other day... Oh i see you are confused...

Let me explain... NASA and science are synonym but situated where!? NEW ORLEANS, and yes KATRINA was a storm that caused plenty damage! BEL and NEBO into each other's hair! G-D do not like the attitude of science.
 

ToxicBunny

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douwdouw : actually no, if you want to be totally true about New Orleans, and Katrina, it was stupid humans who cost themselves a billion dollars by diverting the Missisippi River,and also building in an area that is prone to flooding. The hurricanes are natural for that area at that time of the year. It was going to happen sooner or later and didn't need any of your "gods" to make it happen.
 

Mr TB

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douwdouw : actually no, if you want to be totally true about New Orleans, and Katrina, it was stupid humans who cost themselves a billion dollars by diverting the Missisippi River,and also building in an area that is prone to flooding. The hurricanes are natural for that area at that time of the year. It was going to happen sooner or later and didn't need any of your "gods" to make it happen.
Ok then is science explanation for it, or is it NEBO the god of science explain hiding the mess he cause humanity?
 

ToxicBunny

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No... its not sciences explanation for it... please..

Its not like it was a freak accident.... Hurricanes have been happening in that part of the world for millenia.... the area is a flood plain.... These are all natural phenomena.... Please stop trying to blame something for it, it was going to happen sooner or later...
 

LoneGunman

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dodo's version of 'christianity' involves some bizarre occult reality more suited to 13th century peasants. something happens, well its the imaginary fat fairy who did it.
 

Mr TB

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dodo's version of 'christianity' involves some bizarre occult reality more suited to 13th century peasants. something happens, well its the imaginary fat fairy who did it.
Yes, as the bizarre logical way to establisth your authority as the Living god in the ten plagues when leading the israelites out of ancient egypt, or do you think this is all by chance like evolution....


I have in another thread mentioned the importance understanding the ten plagues and the way it happened…
God wish Pharao to let the Israelites go but this was only possible if God was indeed the true living God he claims to be: Read on
QUOTE:
"Re (Ra) was the Egyptian sun god who was also often referred to as Re-Horakhty, meaning Re (is) Horus of the Horizon, referring to the god's character. The early Egyptians believed that he created the world, and the rising sun was, for them, the symbol of creation. The daily cycle, as the sun rose, then set only to rise again the next morning, symbolized renewal and so Re was seen as the paramount force of creation and master of life. "

So according to the Egyptians ra their sungod was the sovereign god. How does the Living god establish his authority over the egyptian gods….
QUOTE:
EX 10v21 The ninth plague-3 days of darkness-establish authority over sungod ra.

"21And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt." KJV

The attempt to place horus on the level as christ is obviuosly in vain as ra is HIS grandfather if I may put it that way. The Living God established his authority….

If you do not understand ancient cultures you will not understand why the living god used the methods he did and keep on being flabergasted…
 
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ToxicBunny

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Evidence of the ten plagues would be a good thing to start with (and not from the bible)...

You still have a few problems with english obviously... so it does make discussing issues rather difficult
 

ghoti

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I would just like to point out to everyone, that douwdouw the dodo, believes in a God called "Nebo". So apparently his God has more competition. What strikes me as odd about this lunatics reply is that I am pretty sure the Christian religion does not have room for extra Gods.
 

PeterCH

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The point about debunking the Bible is that if it were made up of
lies, it would be easy to debunk and disprove. We have people who
defined space for us, who discovered DNA, treatments for
cancer, we've travelled to the moon and Mars, we've discovered
ancient civilisations, so disproving the Bible should be relatively easy.
It's only really been attempted by nuts and charalatans, not genuine
researchers, eg Brown from Da Vinci Code fame, and his assertions have all proven to be BS.

Heck, why not have the Chinese or North Koreans do it, imagine the chaos
in the west if someone from China came up with proof that Jesus never
existed. What about Stalin and the USSR? The could have researched
the Bible and proved to us that none of those things never happened
or that they are a verbatim copy of some ancient Sumerian legend or
something.

The problem with non-religious people is that they don't realise that
people choose to believe in God of their own free will.
We choose to believe but most of us don't dwell on the idea
of a God, we don't try to find evidence for God in
ancient writings, astrophysics research or DNA.
 
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Mr TB

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Evidence of the ten plagues would be a good thing to start with (and not from the bible)...

You still have a few problems with english obviously... so it does make discussing issues rather difficult
This atheist bunch are really a interesting lot . They come out making accusations in such a way that the Living god is a murderous god.

They are shown the logical way in which the plagues were executed. Failing to prove a murderous god. suddenly looking for evidence of the plagues!:D

The "logical" way in which this "fairy tale" is written makes the atheists uneasy...

Information tecnology and DNA, those knowing the field says info can't just be there...problem for the atheist...

That swiss cheese called atheism are definitely full of holes...
 

ToxicBunny

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You are the one who brought the plagues into this discussion douwdouw, so the onus is on you to prove their existence, everything I've been using in the New Orleans/Katrina disaster is proven and known...

logical way the fairy tale makes atheists uneasy?.. how do you figure that?
Ummm...
aggg.. this is pointless really..

/me walks away shaking my head...
 

Electrra

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Ok then is science explanation for it, or is it NEBO the god of science explain hiding the mess he cause humanity?
Actually those of us who appreciate science and its method for understanding the universe find the idea of a god unnecessary and therefore your statement is nonsensical.
 
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Electrra

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This atheist bunch are really a interesting lot . They come out making accusations in such a way that the Living god is a murderous god.

They are shown the logical way in which the plagues were executed. Failing to prove a murderous god. suddenly looking for evidence of the plagues!:D
Actually we have a method for determining the cause of the disaster. We use science and knowledge that is provable.
By stateing that is was a 'plague' it is YOU who is claiming that a god was a cause and because of the massive loss of live, it is YOU who is claiming it was a murderous god.
The rest of us call it a natural phenomenon with disasterous consequences.


The "logical" way in which this "fairy tale" is written makes the atheists uneasy...

Information tecnology and DNA, those knowing the field says info can't just be there...problem for the atheist...
Completly nonsensical. I tried to understand what you were saying but I realised that you were not saying anything at all.

That swiss cheese called atheism are definitely full of holes...
Mention one. And please try to communicate yourself so that the rest of us who are in this "conversation" can actually understand what you are saying, whether we agree with it or not.
 
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Mr TB

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Mention one. And please try to communicate yourself so that the rest of us who are in this "conversation" can actually understand what you are saying, whether we agree with it or not.
Have you forgotten your god has a name? It is NEBO. It is written in the bible how you will clung to it!.. Even before you started to do it another prophecy in the bible fulfilled!

NEBO'S father is BEL that is just as good!...

Science can proof as much as what you want to believe, nothing more than that...

God gave scientist the ability to investigate this wonderful universe he created, using it to try and disprove his existence only cause great disasters like nagasaki and hirosjima...,katrina...tsunamis...genocide in africa, war...
 

Neo

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Have you forgotten your god has a name? It is NEBO. It is written in the bible how you will clung to it!.. Even before you started to do it another prophecy in the bible fulfilled!

NEBO'S father is BEL that is just as good!...

Science can proof as much as what you want to believe, nothing more than that...

God gave scientist the ability to investigate this wonderful universe he created, using it to try and disprove his existence only cause great disasters like nagasaki and hirosjima...,katrina...tsunamis...genocide in africa, war...
dodo, you are seriously ill. Seek help.
 

ToxicBunny

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Neo : i gave up today.... it was no longer entertaining or enlightning....
 

Electrra

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Have you forgotten your god has a name? It is NEBO. It is written in the bible how you will clung to it!.. Even before you started to do it another prophecy in the bible fulfilled!

NEBO'S father is BEL that is just as good!...

Science can proof as much as what you want to believe, nothing more than that...

God gave scientist the ability to investigate this wonderful universe he created, using it to try and disprove his existence only cause great disasters like nagasaki and hirosjima...,katrina...tsunamis...genocide in africa, war...
Actually those of us who appreciate science and its method for understanding the universe find the idea of a god unnecessary and therefore your statement is nonsensical.
Learn to read.
 
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